Transporting A Shotgun

[iMoses14]

OK. First off, I know shotguns (and rifles) must be unloaded when transporting them in a vehicle. However, can you transport a shotgun with a side saddle that is holding spare shells in it or a Speedfeed stock that is holding spare shells? Or do they have to be unloaded as well?

[RuthlessZ]

IANAL

Yes you can the only thing that has to be separate are loaded magazines, "loose" ammo as you described can be anywhere.

[BimmerJon]

OK. First off, I know shotguns (and rifles) must be unloaded when transporting them in a vehicle. However, can you transport a shotgun with a side saddle that is holding spare shells in it or a Speedfeed stock that is holding spare shells? Or do they have to be unloaded as well?

Only loaded mags need to be in a separate container or separate pocket of same container

[ForeverPA]

I assume this is legal too.

[BimmerJon]

Yep, as long as unloaded

[OldSchoolPC]

Only loaded mags need to be in a separate container or separate pocket of same container

No. If it's a magazine-fed shotgun you can keep the mags near it technically. Why? Because the UFA defines what loaded is for a "firearm". There is no definition of a loaded shotgun. With a firearm for instance, if it's on your passenger side seat with a loaded magazine NEXT to it, it's considered LOADED. With a long-gun that uses magazines, the UFA does not define loaded long-gun magazines NEXT to a long-gun to mean that the long-gun in loaded. Therefore, that definition does not apply.

I wouldn't risk it quite honestly. In fact, although LOOSE long-gun ammo on a side-saddle is unequivocally legal, I wouldn't have that be visible in any way.

This is one thing, that a certain Moderator, and a certain lawyer on here seem to keep getting incorrect. Magazines need not be stored separately from LONG-GUNS. But I really would not do it. IANAL

(a) General rule.-- Except as provided in Title 34 (relating to game), no person shall carry a loaded pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle, other than a firearm as defined in section 6102 (relating to definitions), in any vehicle. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons excepted from the requirement of a license to carry firearms under section 6106(b)(1), (2), (5) or (6) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) nor shall the provisions of this section be construed to permit persons to carry firearms in a vehicle where such conduct is prohibited by section 6106.
(b) Penalty.--A person who violates the provisions of this section commits a summary offense.

"Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

"Loaded." A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or in the case of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment thereof as the firearm.

IANAL

[BimmerJon]

There's a lot wrong with your post

Don't have time to correct ya

[Hawk]

From here: http://paopencarry.org/pdfs/Pennsylvania_Gun_Rights.pdf

"Transporting within PA: Long guns MUST be unloaded
(clear chamber and no magazine in weapon) and for magazine
fed weapons any loaded magazines must be in a separate
container in order to be transported in vehicles within PA.
Handguns may be loaded while in a vehicle only if the person
in possession holds a valid PA LTCF or a carry license from
any other state.
Without a LTCF, or other state permit, handguns may only
be transported, unloaded, to and from specific activities and
locations. To and from: the place of purchase, repair, range,
hunting location, etc. For a complete list and comprehensive
limitations please see 18 Pa.C.S. §6106(b)."

[OldSchoolPC]

From here: http://paopencarry.org/pdfs/Pennsylvania_Gun_Rights.pdf

"Transporting within PA: Long guns MUST be unloaded
(clear chamber and no magazine in weapon) and for magazine
fed weapons any loaded magazines must be in a separate
container in order to be transported in vehicles within PA.
Handguns may be loaded while in a vehicle only if the person
in possession holds a valid PA LTCF or a carry license from
any other state.
Without a LTCF, or other state permit, handguns may only
be transported, unloaded, to and from specific activities and
locations. To and from: the place of purchase, repair, range,
hunting location, etc. For a complete list and comprehensive
limitations please see 18 Pa.C.S. §6106(b)."

This, is wrong. Instead of the "paopencarry.org" translation, how about you show me where in the law, it says that a LONG-GUN cannot have a loaded magazine next to it? The "loaded" definition is for firearms only. In the definition, is is NOT expanded to include "anything capable of firing a projectile by act of an explosion etc. etc."

A handgun(firearm) with no loaded magazine inserted, nor a round in the chamber is still considered loaded if for instance there is a loaded mag right next to it. I think everybody is pretty much clear on that. However, a long-gun is not a firearm. Loaded long-gun, is deemed illegal, and a summary offense. However, the UFA does not say what loaded is for a long-gun. Therefore, if there is no rounds in the chamber, and a loaded magazine is not INSERTED, it is clearly unloaded. That extra little "seperate container" B.S. does not apply to long guns. Might a philly judge convict you anyway? Yes. But as far as the letter of the law goes, it's legal.

All this being said, if I had a mag-fed shotgun, I'd keep it VERY separate. Hell, I'd even keep the loose shells separate too.

IANAL

[GunLawyer001]

No. If it's a magazine-fed shotgun you can keep the mags near it technically. Why? Because the UFA defines what loaded is for a "firearm". There is no definition of a loaded shotgun. With a firearm for instance, if it's on your passenger side seat with a loaded magazine NEXT to it, it's considered LOADED. With a long-gun that uses magazines, the UFA does not define loaded long-gun magazines NEXT to a long-gun to mean that the long-gun in loaded. Therefore, that definition does not apply.

I wouldn't risk it quite honestly. In fact, although LOOSE long-gun ammo on a side-saddle is unequivocally legal, I wouldn't have that be visible in any way.

This is one thing, that a certain Moderator, and a certain lawyer on here seem to keep getting incorrect. Magazines need not be stored separately from LONG-GUNS. But I really would not do it. IANAL







IANAL

This overstates the case a bit.

I raised this exact discrepancy on PAFOA a few years ago, pointing out that the UFA lacks any definition of "loaded" for long guns, which is odd, because there's a specific statute that applies only to loaded long guns.

It's a Hail Mary defense, though, because in the absence of an applicable legal definition, the courts are left to find their own definition. Sure, they could go to Webster's dictionary, or the popular literature. There's plenty of wiggle-room; does a round have to be chambered for your AR-15 to be "loaded", or is an inserted mag with an empty chamber enough? Is there any good reason why the UFA's definition that applies to "firearms" can't be the definition that the court applies to long guns?

It's a summary offense, so your trial court will be a DJ. The argument is a bit subtle for that venue.

I agree with your conclusion, that it's just not worth the risk, because whatever the fine is, whatever term of imprisonment you risk, they'll seize your gun and keep it as derivative contraband.