Bump fire, Slide Fire project

[Clark Kent]

$380 for a plastic stock...

EDIT: Turn the discussion into the legal ramifications of cloning a slidefire solutions stock based on the BATF letter description of the stock and its function. There are several clones of the slidefire and DIY builds out there. What are your thoughts on that?

example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PukUhm1DamY

exert from BATF letter:

Your submission includes the following: a block to replace the pistol grip while providing retention for the selector stop spring; a hollow shoulder stock intended to be installed over the rear of an AR-15 fitting with a sliding-stock type buffer-tube assembly; and a set of assembly instructions.

The FTB evaluation confirmed that the submitted stock (see enclosed photos) does attach to the rear of an AR-15 type rifle which has been fitted with a sliding shoulder-stock type buffer-tube assembly. The stock has no automatically functioning mechanical parts or springs and performs no automatic mechanical function when installed. In order to use the installed device, the shooter must apply constant forward pressure with the non-shooting hand and constant rearward pressure with the shooting hand. Accordingly, we find that the "bump-stock" is a firearm part and is not regulated as a firearm under Gun Control Act or the National Firearms Act.

[GunLawyer001]

The only concern I'd have would be that the Slidefire folks have an approval letter from ATF, and you don't.

Of course, the Akins Accelerator also had an approval letter from ATF, which ATF revoked after waiting long enough for Akins to spend a fortune on gearing up and manufacturing. So those approval letters aren't exactly written in stone.

ATF seems to have issues with anything that LOOKS kinda fully-automatic, which is why they decided to re-define the word "function" to mean only "pull", which then killed the Akins because the stock pushed the trigger against the finger instead of the finger pulling the trigger; which is different from the Slidefire, because the Slidefire stock pushes the trigger.....um.....well, there's no spring, so there's that.....

[Clark Kent]

Interesting that they can revoke items like that. In the event that do revoke the slidefire and for those who have already purchased the item, does that mean that they are now in procession of an illegal item?

[Noah_Zark]

. . . In the event that do revoke the slidefire and for those who have already purchased the item, does that mean that they would be in possession of an illegal item?

(Fixed a couple things for ya ^^^)

In the event that the BATFE revoked the Firearms Technical Branch Slidefire letter, owners would be in possession of an illegal item, and would have X period of time to surrender the item. This is what happened to owners of the Akins Accelerator; they had to surrender the springs and mother metal bits from the Akins stock, but could keep the stock itself. And no, there was no reimbursement.

Noah

[PA1936MN]

So Johnny X buys the stock at a LGS with CASH. How are they going to know who bought it? It's a serious question because I am sure there are some owners out there who did pay for them in cash.

[bogey1]

So Johnny X buys the stock at a LGS with CASH. How are they going to know who bought it? It's a serious question because I am sure there are some owners out there who did pay for them in cash.

Someone i know bought some parts kits online, after almost a year or so the atf deemed them, how can i say it, illegal. They were bandsaw cut, not torch cut.
They did call and ask if he still had them, he said no they were gone. That was it..

[GunLawyer001]

So Johnny X buys the stock at a LGS with CASH. How are they going to know who bought it? It's a serious question because I am sure there are some owners out there who did pay for them in cash.

If ATF revokes their approval, then possession is a crime, whether anyone knows about it or not. Same as if you swiped your neighbor's cash and nobody saw you, or you killed a hooker and dumped the body in an old mine shaft. Most people who violate the law do so with the belief that nobody will be able to prove it, and yet we have a million people sitting in jail, and many times that with convictions.

[PA1936MN]

The question wasn't if it was LEGAL or ILLEGAL. The question was how would the ATF know you had the item if you paid cash for the item. Illegal is illegal, I get that. I'm not debating that.

So back to my question... How would the ATF know if Johnny X paid cash for the stock and went on his merry way. And 5 years later they demmed it ILLEGAL. How would the ATF know? It's not as if the stock was logged like a handgun sale.

[GunLawyer001]

The question wasn't if it was LEGAL or ILLEGAL. The question was how would the ATF know you had the item if you paid cash for the item. Illegal is illegal, I get that. I'm not debating that.

So back to my question... How would the ATF know if Johnny X paid cash for the stock and went on his merry way. And 5 years later they demmed it ILLEGAL. How would the ATF know? It's not as if the stock was logged like a handgun sale.

Like I said, people who break the law do so with the assumption that nobody will find out, and they are frequently wrong.

There's no "standard way that ATF will find out", nor is there any standard way that police bust people for drug possession. There are as many specific ways to be caught as there are people. In this case, you have a product that tends to be very noisy when used as intended. Plenty of people get dimed-out by other people at the range, correctly or not (ask around and see how many PAFOA members have been told that their registered MG's are illegal, by strangers who assume that they have a firm grasp of "whatever law it is" that bans all machineguns and such.) Others are discovered by snoopy landlords, disgruntled friends or coworkers, ex-wives, or even burglars. (There have been multiple pedophiles who were turned in to the cops by burglars who stole tapes of the misdeeds from the pedophile's home.)

[Noah_Zark]

Like I said, people who break the law do so with the assumption that nobody will find out, and they are frequently wrong.

There's no "standard way that ATF will find out", nor is there any standard way that police bust people for drug possession. There are as many specific ways to be caught as there are people. In this case, you have a product that tends to be very noisy when used as intended. Plenty of people get dimed-out by other people at the range, correctly or not (ask around and see how many PAFOA members have been told that their registered MG's are illegal, by strangers who assume that they have a firm grasp of "whatever law it is" that bans all machineguns and such.) Others are discovered by snoopy landlords, disgruntled friends or coworkers, ex-wives, or even burglars. (There have been multiple pedophiles who were turned in to the cops by burglars who stole tapes of the misdeeds from the pedophile's home.)

How will the ATF find out? Because as GL points out above, too many people will know, eventually.

IOW, as the saying goes, five people can keep a secret as long as four of them are dead.

Noah