Open carry while instigating conflict or arguement

[PowerPM]

So the question I have for the OC members is if you are going to a business I which carry is allowed but your point of going is going to be visualized as an argument, will you carry?

Situation- you go to the nearest AT&T store to complain about your cell phone bill/faulty phone/ poor service. Your conversation gets heated and the employee you are talking too gets nervous and threatens to call police or other options.

The question is that since you will be instigating a potential conflict do you make the conscious decision not to carry due to the visual effects you OCing will cause?

[PennsyPlinker]

I am a very large individual. People say I am imposing. I have an extremely deep voice - three lines below the bass clef is about my lowest note. I write all that because when I scowl and speak firmly, it often causes people to shake - literally. I have been accused of shouting when I never raised my voice.

I almost always OC. So, if I have to have an acrimonious confrontation because of poor service, I almost always leave my gun behind. People are often scared enough when I get angry without me having a gun visible. I do leave my holster on though.

[Greywolf]

So the question I have for the OC members is if you are going to a business I which carry is allowed but your point of going is going to be visualized as an argument, will you carry?

Situation- you go to the nearest AT&T store to complain about your cell phone bill/faulty phone/ poor service. Your conversation gets heated and the employee you are talking too gets nervous and threatens to call police or other options.

The question is that since you will be instigating a potential conflict do you make the conscious decision not to carry due to the visual effects you OCing will cause?

My question to you is why you allow a discussion about a contractual service to become heated in the first place. There is no need or reason for that to happen. If the first sales or customer "service" person you encounter can't or won't effectively answer your questions or resolve your issue, there is no reason to argue -- they probably haven't got the authority to give you what you want anyway. So ask to speak to his/her supervisor.

Going in to discuss your service is not ipso facto going in with the intent of "instigating" (your word, not mine) a conflict. Conflict is counter-productive and should be avoided.

Case in point ... me. This happened to be Verizon, not AT&T, but the same principles apply. We got my daughter a new Droid phone. It was horrible. We took it back -- they replaced the battery, that didn't help, so they replaced the whole phone. Still no improvement. Dropped calls, horrible battery life, many other problems.

So we went back again and spoke to the rep who sold us the phone. We asked to swap it for some other model. He said he didn't have authority to do that. So we asked for and he brought out the manager. The manager asked the rep, who confirmed the prior discussions and what had been done so far. manager said "There's nothing more I can do for you." So I asked for a name and number for someone above him who might be able to help. His response? "I will not allow you to escalate this any farther."

Wrong answer.

You ever hear the zinger about why you should never wrestle with a pig? You both get dirty, but the pig enjoys it. There is nothing to be gained by arguing with fools. I went home, looked up the names and addresses of both Verizon, and Verizon Wireless, and wrote to both of them. Two days later I received a very courteous telephone call from a woman in the office of the president of Verizon Wireless. She apologized for our problem, and with no argument arranged to exchange my daughter's Droid for the other model phone we had wanted, and which the store manager told us was "absolutely impossible."

[PowerPM]

Grey,

The scenario never has happened to me. The scenario is representative of many conflicts an OCer might have. So I take it that you would have open carried into the VZW store.

I appreciate your input.

My question to you is why you allow a discussion about a contractual service to become heated in the first place. There is no need or reason for that to happen. If the first sales or customer "service" person you encounter can't or won't effectively answer your questions or resolve your issue, there is no reason to argue -- they probably haven't got the authority to give you what you want anyway. So ask to speak to his/her supervisor.

It is not my interpretation that the situation became heated. It is the interpretation of the employee and how he is reacting to a man complaining about a "thing" while carring a firearm.

[GunLawyer001]

Hire competent legal counsel, early and often. Works better than yelling, and with less risk of the police being called.

Costs more, though, so it's not really Plan A if you received 2 cheeseburgers instead of the 3 that you paid for. Works pretty good for defective cars, though.

Bottom line, if a business refuses to do the right thing, then yelling at the counter flunky isn't going to help, with or without a hogleg on display. That's why we have courts, and regional managers, and newspapers that love consumer horror stories.

[Statkowski]

"An armed society is a police society."

As the previous poster excellently showed, diplomacy at a higher level works far better than getting your undies all bunched up.

[Shodan]

CC maybe? Why be unarmed on the way to and from the potential heated conversation?

That seems so obvious that I feel like I'm missing something?

[PennsyPlinker]

Bottom line, if a business refuses to do the right thing, then yelling at the counter flunky isn't going to help, with or without a hogleg on display.

I agree with this completely, but I have been accused of being aggressive when I am just stating a case in clear simple terms. That's why I leave my gun behind if it has a chance of getting tense. Heck, I have been accused of being intimidating just standing around minding my own business!

[zeroflat24]

Hire competent legal counsel, early and often. Works better than yelling, and with less risk of the police being called.

Costs more, though, so it's not really Plan A if you received 2 cheeseburgers instead of the 3 that you paid for. Works pretty good for defective cars, though.

Bottom line, if a business refuses to do the right thing, then yelling at the counter flunky isn't going to help, with or without a hogleg on display. That's why we have courts, and regional managers, and newspapers that love consumer horror stories.

I happen to be one of those counter flunkies. I work for a major automotive repair facility. We often get people who are 'heated' to say the least. I will be the first to tell you, yelling accomplishes nothing but making you look like an ass to other people. Calmly talking through your issue with the customer service person is the best course of action and gets the best results. I can't tell you how many times I've had people freak out because we forgot to shut off their oil change light (every car is different, but most are simple) and tweak when I say 'ok give me 2 minutes and I'll shut it off' they bitch a fit because I am wasting 2 minutes of their soooo valuable time. Bottom line, if you know how to deal with people, having an OCed firearm should make no difference.

[GunLawyer001]

I agree with this completely, but I have been accused of being aggressive when I am just stating a case in clear simple terms. That's why I leave my gun behind if it has a chance of getting tense. Heck, I have been accused of being intimidating just standing around minding my own business!

I hope that you understand that I meant no disrespect.

Please don't hurt me.