Gun Grab Scenario: After the Grab

**coppery** · October 25th, 2012, 08:57 PM

Thanks all for the input. This sheds some light for me on the topic of violence of action against an unknown threat from behind.

**B.A.** · October 26th, 2012, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by snakeman21

I can personally tell you that you are WRONG to assume that. I was once taking a walk, OC'ing. Apparently someone reported me, because a cop stopped his car next to me(with no lights or siren on), jumped out, and simply snatched my 1911 from its holster without saying a word. The only reason nobody got shot that day was that I saw him before he grabbed the gun and I knew it was just a cop about to turn a good day into a shitty one.

Please tell me that that dude is no longer employed. I couldn't even imagine what would go through my head in that situation.

**PennsyPlinker** · October 26th, 2012, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by coppery

Idiot decided to grab your gun, and you respond by thrusting your elbow into his/her face. We would probably then add insult to injury and stoutly ask them what they are thinking, why would they do that.

I doubt very much that I would follow this course of action. While it sounds good, and even satisfying, there are a couple of problems with it. First, and most important, you are not working to maintain control of the gun, you are striking out at an attacker. While that might sound like the most important thing to do, the most important thing is to maintain control of your firearm.

When you swing back with your elbow you could miss. The bad guy could be further away than you thought, your arm might not be placed properly, or it might not be long enough. Even if you hit him (or her) you may not cause enough pain or damage to stop his course of action. Swinging backward like that could cause you to go off balance. The end result is the bad guy still gets your gun.

No, to my mind, the first thing is to gain positive control of the gun. That means clapping your hand down on the hand of your opponent, firmly and decisively. This has two advantages. One, you maintain control of your own gun. Two, you now have control (more or less) of your opponent and the overall situation. You have not yet committed yourself to a course of action that could turn out very badly for you in the long run. More on that in a minute.

Once you have control of your opponent's hand and arm, you can decide what to do. Is the person a foolish child operating on a whim or a dare? Or is it a determined attacker? You don't have the time to assess that if you smack them in the face with your elbow. At this point you can decide how much more force needs to be exerted to stop the problem. You can do anything from let go of the other person to twisting their arm to cause enough pain to persuade them to stop, to breaking it to force them to stop.

But consider this. While it is imperative that you act as though your life is on the line in the first couple of seconds, you do not need to continue as if it were so. It might be, but then again, it might not. Think about standing in front of the judge explaining why you smashed the nose and dental work of a 14 year old girl who was just fooling around. Please note: I am not saying she might not deserve it. I am only saying think about explaining it in front of the judge. Think about how it will play to a jury of your peers.

On the other hand, you may turn with the other person's hand in yours only to discover a meth head with death in his eyes. You still have control. Then you can break bones, smash noses, whatever it takes to stop the confrontation. But in the end, you have maintained control over your gun and over the situation, without going further than you need. And what makes it even better is that it is the best way to handle the situation tactically. This is my opinion only, based on training in various disciplines over the years, including weapons retention.

**GratefulJack** · October 26th, 2012, 11:15 AM

^^^^^^^^^^^

That is one of the best posts I have read around here in a while. Thanks for the thought provoking words!

**coppery** · October 26th, 2012, 11:50 PM

Originally Posted by PennsyPlinker

I doubt very much that I would follow this course of action. While it sounds good, and even satisfying, there are a couple of problems with it. First, and most important, you are not working to maintain control of the gun, you are striking out at an attacker. While that might sound like the most important thing to do, the most important thing is to maintain control of your firearm.

When you swing back with your elbow you could miss. The bad guy could be further away than you thought, your arm might not be placed properly, or it might not be long enough. Even if you hit him (or her) you may not cause enough pain or damage to stop his course of action. Swinging backward like that could cause you to go off balance. The end result is the bad guy still gets your gun.

No, to my mind, the first thing is to gain positive control of the gun. That means clapping your hand down on the hand of your opponent, firmly and decisively. This has two advantages. One, you maintain control of your own gun. Two, you now have control (more or less) of your opponent and the overall situation. You have not yet committed yourself to a course of action that could turn out very badly for you in the long run. More on that in a minute.

Once you have control of your opponent's hand and arm, you can decide what to do. Is the person a foolish child operating on a whim or a dare? Or is it a determined attacker? You don't have the time to assess that if you smack them in the face with your elbow. At this point you can decide how much more force needs to be exerted to stop the problem. You can do anything from let go of the other person to twisting their arm to cause enough pain to persuade them to stop, to breaking it to force them to stop.

But consider this. While it is imperative that you act as though your life is on the line in the first couple of seconds, you do not need to continue as if it were so. It might be, but then again, it might not. Think about standing in front of the judge explaining why you smashed the nose and dental work of a 14 year old girl who was just fooling around. Please note: I am not saying she might not deserve it. I am only saying think about explaining it in front of the judge. Think about how it will play to a jury of your peers.

On the other hand, you may turn with the other person's hand in yours only to discover a meth head with death in his eyes. You still have control. Then you can break bones, smash noses, whatever it takes to stop the confrontation. But in the end, you have maintained control over your gun and over the situation, without going further than you need. And what makes it even better is that it is the best way to handle the situation tactically. This is my opinion only, based on training in various disciplines over the years, including weapons retention.

total win, and very informative. grab assess execute necessary force, instead of full on strike first ask questions later.