Sig P938 vs. Kimber Ultra vs. Kahr PM9

**Asmodeus6** · October 23rd, 2012, 04:32 PM

Originally Posted by Nicoli06

Seems like the Kimber isn't a winner. Maybe my love of 1911s is clouding my judgement haha.

Mostly leaning toward the P938 or the Kahr (wouldn't mind having the one with the safety).

I'd still be carrying my G23 most of the time, just want something else to work in besides a G22, 5" 1911, P2000sk or S&W .38 (not a big revolver fan)

The moral of the story is that the majority of the 'nice' 1911 things you like on your full size will also be present on the UC. The downside is the majority of those things aren't awesome in a carry gun. Mainly the length of the grip, the extended beavertail, the safety... You'll definitely drop a good bit of weight compared to a steel 5" gun. But you also loose sight radius and muzzle blast out of the 3" gun is genuinely obnoxious.

IME the 3" gun was capable of the same accuracy as the 5" ones IF, and I mean IF you had the skills to run it. The sight radius makes that hard. Trigger and general fit and finish were top shelf. And again, I never had any trouble with the UC II.

The 1911 isn't exactly the ideal carry gun. And a lot of that crosses over to the smaller versions as well. I cannot even begin to put into words how much better a G26 carries than the UC even. A lot of this is personal preference. But the grip is much smaller. There's less shit poking me.

If you're a die hard 1911 guy the UC may work just fine for you. It WILL be easier to carry than your full size. It is not IMO well suited as a deep carry gun. The P938 is just on the edge as pocket, and deep carry. The UC will dwarf this pistol. It will most likely carry worse than your H&K. It will also dwarf your alternative PM9. So you have to get real about what niche you are actually trying to fill with this gun.

Do you want something for deeper carry than your sub compact H&K? Or something more like your full size 1911 for those days when you are able to carry a larger gun?

The choices are not on the same plane. 2 of these guns are borderline pocket pistols. And one that falls in between a G26 and G19 size wise. (G26 slide, G19 grip)

Figure out what hole you want to fill. And I think we'll be able to help you nitpick the choices better at that point.

**Nicoli06** · October 23rd, 2012, 05:47 PM

Originally Posted by FLICK

If your gonna spend the coin on a Kimber and want to stay with a carry-able 1911, look at STI. They have quite a few 3" and 4" 1911's in 9, 40, and 45. They even have double stack 1911's in a few different calibers that could be carried with ease. Not cheap; maybe you could sell a Glock or that pesky snubby (

) and get a great 1911.......

Won't ever sell my G23, and my G22 is a duty gun.

Originally Posted by Asmodeus6

The moral of the story is that the majority of the 'nice' 1911 things you like on your full size will also be present on the UC. The downside is the majority of those things aren't awesome in a carry gun. Mainly the length of the grip, the extended beavertail, the safety... You'll definitely drop a good bit of weight compared to a steel 5" gun. But you also loose sight radius and muzzle blast out of the 3" gun is genuinely obnoxious.

IME the 3" gun was capable of the same accuracy as the 5" ones IF, and I mean IF you had the skills to run it. The sight radius makes that hard. Trigger and general fit and finish were top shelf. And again, I never had any trouble with the UC II.

The 1911 isn't exactly the ideal carry gun. And a lot of that crosses over to the smaller versions as well. I cannot even begin to put into words how much better a G26 carries than the UC even. A lot of this is personal preference. But the grip is much smaller. There's less shit poking me.

If you're a die hard 1911 guy the UC may work just fine for you. It WILL be easier to carry than your full size. It is not IMO well suited as a deep carry gun. The P938 is just on the edge as pocket, and deep carry. The UC will dwarf this pistol. It will most likely carry worse than your H&K. It will also dwarf your alternative PM9. So you have to get real about what niche you are actually trying to fill with this gun.

Do you want something for deeper carry than your sub compact H&K? Or something more like your full size 1911 for those days when you are able to carry a larger gun?

The choices are not on the same plane. 2 of these guns are borderline pocket pistols. And one that falls in between a G26 and G19 size wise. (G26 slide, G19 grip)

Figure out what hole you want to fill. And I think we'll be able to help you nitpick the choices better at that point.

Deeper carry. Thinner than the HK. I have enough large carry guns.

**IntenseImage** · October 24th, 2012, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by orionz06

Sales figures hardly line up with quality. And when you sell a majority of your guns to people who don't shoot... Well, you can see where I am going.

Point is for their price you should be getting better...

Ideal as in effective as in not .32ACP or crap like that. 9mm, .40, .45... Carry what you are comfortable with is a line of crap that people use to rationalize things.

If all handguns suck at stopping people why pick from the bottom of the barrel?

If Kimbers were "trash" as you so eloquently put, they wouldnt have the sales they do ... while it may not be the "quality" you are looking for, they are certainly not trash. I do agree that MOST of their models are priced above what any sane person would spend for what they get in return. However, their Custom II model at $760 is hard to beat

Your use of "effective" is subjective too. The chances of a .45 stopping someone in a single shot is greater than that of a .22 - nobody would question that. But as others have said, getting shot is getting shot. Unless they are drug fueled, most people would give up the fight even after a .22 bounced off their skull. To me, thats still damn effective. (I say this thinking back to the video that came out just a few months ago of the guy in FL shooting some robbers at a cafe - it wasnt a .45 and the kid was hit in his ass cheek but still hauled ass outta there. You tell him his round of choice wasnt effective)

As for rationalizing - my wife feels that the push from a .45 is too much for her to handle. She has resorted to 9mm instead. Comfortable with what she carries.

**orionz06** · October 24th, 2012, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by IntenseImage

If Kimbers were "trash" as you so eloquently put, they wouldnt have the sales they do ... while it may not be the "quality" you are looking for, they are certainly not trash. I do agree that MOST of their models are priced above what any sane person would spend for what they get in return. However, their Custom II model at $760 is hard to beat

No, performance doesn't matter otherwise Hi-Points wouldn't sell as much as they do.

Originally Posted by IntenseImage

Your use of "effective" is subjective too. The chances of a .45 stopping someone in a single shot is greater than that of a .22 - nobody would question that. But as others have said, getting shot is getting shot. Unless they are drug fueled, most people would give up the fight even after a .22 bounced off their skull.

I will leave this one alone...

Originally Posted by IntenseImage

As for rationalizing - my wife feels that the push from a .45 is too much for her to handle. She has resorted to 9mm instead. Comfortable with what she carries.

Resort to 9mm?

**IntenseImage** · October 24th, 2012, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by orionz06

No, performance doesn't matter otherwise Hi-Points wouldn't sell as much as they do.

I will leave this one alone...

Resort to 9mm?

Not sure how you dragged performance into this discussion about "trash vs quality" when you need to see it as an entire package of fit, finish, and function. Performance alone we can look at Glocks. Proven track records for reliability yet there are still plenty of people who have issues. Its no different with a Kimber or any other 1911. Fit and finish of a Hi-Point (carbine for example) is lacking, but the price and reliability are pretty good. If we narrow our view to the 1911 world we have RIA's who are a little less polished in terms of fit and finish ... but lower price and reliability are still strong points which IMHO make it a "quality" gun FOR THE PRICE. Toss another $100 on the table and you can make a huge leap to a Custom II in terms of fit and finish with the same reliability. Yet again, quality for the price paid.

You claim that Kimber is trash yet have not really given any detail as to why except its a company that you thinks cuts corners. What corners? MIM and a plastic MSH? Once again at the $700 level, FINE ... if you spend $2k on a Kimber its your own damn fault for not shopping around. Thats just people buying for the name. You have complained more about the 1911 design in general which would speak to any of the manufacturers out there.

Regarding my 9mm comment, I dont see your issue. Are you saying that stepping down from a .45 to a 9mm isnt much of a compromise? What if the only caliber she was comfortable with was a .380?

**orionz06** · October 24th, 2012, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by IntenseImage

Regarding my 9mm comment, I dont see your issue. Are you saying that stepping down from a .45 to a 9mm isnt much of a compromise? What if the only caliber she was comfortable with was a .380?

.45 to 9mm is not much of a compromise at all, I was more along the lines questioning your working that seemed to imply that your wife feels she is compromising with 9mm instead of .45.

If she was only comfortable with a .380 that would go back to my above statement.

**IntenseImage** · October 24th, 2012, 12:48 PM

Originally Posted by orionz06

.45 to 9mm is not much of a compromise at all, I was more along the lines questioning your working that seemed to imply that your wife feels she is compromising with 9mm instead of .45.

If she was only comfortable with a .380 that would go back to my above statement.

She doesnt, but MANY do ... and it all goes back to the original statement of "effective" calibers. If you arent comfortable with the round you carry, how effective will it be it if you cant control it or are afraid of the bang?

**orionz06** · October 24th, 2012, 12:53 PM

Comfort in what way? Comfort in the mental sense that may or may not be rational or comfort in the physical sense in that she may not be able to carry it at all?

What one is "comfortable" with does not change the fact that it may just outright suck.

**Asmodeus6** · October 24th, 2012, 12:55 PM

This is all cute and cuddly.

Can we get back to helping nicoli sort through some options for a deeper carry gun?

Anyone with more input on the 938 or PM9? I've only held them and read a little. I don't have a ton to contribute aside from owning the Kimber in question and some points on that one.