Kicked out of Xfinity Live - Philadelphia, PA

[XavierBK]

Just wanted to make a post detailing my experience this past weekend at Xfinity Live in the sports complex in Philly.

I went to a free outdoor concert hosted by Xfinity Live because my buddies band was opening up for Lit and Buckcherry. I checked over Xfinity Live's website for any sort or rules or regs against carry but was unable to find any. Normally I OC, but since I was expecting there to be a crowd and alcohol I decided to CC to this event.

My party and I arrived at about 6:45pm. At approx 9:30pm I was approached by a PPD officer, a representative of Xfinity Live, and a member of the private security that was present at the event. The officer asked if I was carrying any weapons to which I responded with, "nothing illegal." I had figured that at some point my carry piece had become visible to someone and they complained.

The officer asked for my LTCF and ID and I handed them over, at which point the security guard began telling me that "if you have a right to carry, you should be aware of the rules." I told her that I did what could be expected of a law abiding citizen by checking Xfinity's site for any rules and hadn't found anything. Then she said, "No, I believe it is a state law that you cannot carry in a bar," with the Xfinity Live rep and PPD officer corroborating. I responded that, to my knowledge (and please, chime in if I'm wrong or throw me some citations if I'm right) that it was a perfectly legal practice in the state of Pennsylvania. After that I was told to shut my mouth by the PPD officer and that he knows the law and he would be sending my info over to the ATF and they'd handle it.

I was escorted out of the crowded area and told I'd have to store my weapon in my car. Then the security guard began asking me how I got in with a weapon in the first place and I informed her that when I arrived I observed the guards at each entrance simply carding those who looked young, there were no pat-downs or wandings happening. I informed her that I saw her doing this as well as two other guards at the three entrances. At this point I was told I was not welcome back to the event at all.

I tried to have a friend record the encounter, as I didn't want to go reaching into pockets while surrounded but she managed to miss the key part, where after the officer returned my ID and LTCF I went around and asked each of them their name and who they represent. I do remember it was PPD Officer Montgomery. Possibly Badge #3894? I do not remember the lady representing Xfinity Live and I only remember the security reps first name was Mia. I didn't think I'd be relying on my memory, I was hoping the video would have it.

At the end of the day, I only wanted to see my buddies band, I don't care for Lit or Buckcherry so this gave my party and I a reason to leave early.

[rwb1500]

Complete and total bullshit. No such law exists in PA.

I hope you intend to follow up.

Sending your info to the ATF huh? That sounds like bullshit too. Typical PPD intimidation tactics.

[twency]

... or throw me some citations if I'm right) that it was a perfectly legal practice in the state of Pennsylvania ...

You're not likely to get a citation of statute or caselaw because laws mostly tell you what's illegal, not what's legal. There are exceptions, especially when appellate courts overturn criminal convictions, but I doubt there's anything available to cite regarding your situation.

It sounds like you broke no law based on my quick skim of your post.

[XavierBK]

That's the problem trying to "argue" with these people who "know" the laws. I can't easily prove it other than reading you the entirety of the law because they don't explicitly point it out. But because it isn't specifically written as something illegal by default, it is legal.

But try telling them to three people ganging up on you telling you you're breaking the law.

Note: I put argue in quotes because I was not being argumentative and uncooperative, rather trying to stand up for myself and the law. Don't want to give the wrong idea.

[howard stiffy]

Did they hold your LTCF and make you go to your car, then come back?

Hopefully you were given them back after they 'escorted you out of the crowded area'.

Glad ya got to hear your guys!

[XavierBK]

Oh, no, the officer returned my LTCF and ID after he copied down my info on his notepad, before being escorted away.

[red_oktober78765]

It is unfortunate that PPD doesn't reconize The Constitution of The United States of America. I live on the other side of the state near Pitt. I haven't had any probs carrying open or concealed...For your situation, tho, it does sound like Opression Under Color Of Law, plain and simple...I guess they didn't have that training like they should have after Viper gave them a spanking...Maybe they did and bcause it is Philly, they don't have to listen to it. Either way, I am glad I don't live near that communist area of PA...If it were up to the PPD, we would have to burn all of our books, dispose of "faulty children" like the mentally handicapped, physically disabled, anything other than blue-eyed, blond haired examples of "perfect humanity". I had better quit before I say how I really feel...

[PennsyPlinker]

That's the problem trying to "argue" with these people who "know" the laws.

You can't argue (or debate) this way and win. Change your tactics. When people tell you something is illegal, ask them to cite the law you are breaking. Admittedly it is tough to stand up against a cop, an official of the place where you are at, and one more person, but you can still follow up with at least the cop. The representative of the place will probably fall back on private property once you deflate the false argument about the law. The cop may bluster about disorderly conduct if you continue to question him, but it can be done if you handle it properly. If he insists more loudly, then politely reply that if he is so sure of the law, he should have no problem citing the statute. That is what I do with people.

[XavierBK]

You can't argue (or debate) this way and win. Change your tactics. When people tell you something is illegal, ask them to cite the law you are breaking.

I did. That was when he told me to shut my mouth and responded that he knew the law and he'd be handing my info over to the ATF.

I was really caught off guard because I was CC'ing. When I OC I'm usually running through what-if's in my head and try to stay on my game but since I was concealed I wasn't even thinking of defending my right to carry from an officer.

[Brillfan]

Just wanted to make a post detailing my experience this past weekend at Xfinity Live in the sports complex in Philly.

I went to a free outdoor concert hosted by Xfinity Live because my buddies band was opening up for Lit and Buckcherry. I checked over Xfinity Live's website for any sort or rules or regs against carry but was unable to find any. Normally I OC, but since I was expecting there to be a crowd and alcohol I decided to CC to this event.

My party and I arrived at about 6:45pm. At approx 9:30pm I was approached by a PPD officer, a representative of Xfinity Live, and a member of the private security that was present at the event. The officer asked if I was carrying any weapons to which I responded with, "nothing illegal." I had figured that at some point my carry piece had become visible to someone and they complained.

The officer asked for my LTCF and ID and I handed them over, at which point the security guard began telling me that "if you have a right to carry, you should be aware of the rules." I told her that I did what could be expected of a law abiding citizen by checking Xfinity's site for any rules and hadn't found anything. Then she said, "No, I believe it is a state law that you cannot carry in a bar," with the Xfinity Live rep and PPD officer corroborating. I responded that, to my knowledge (and please, chime in if I'm wrong or throw me some citations if I'm right) that it was a perfectly legal practice in the state of Pennsylvania. After that I was told to shut my mouth by the PPD officer and that he knows the law and he would be sending my info over to the ATF and they'd handle it.
I was escorted out of the crowded area and told I'd have to store my weapon in my car. Then the security guard began asking me how I got in with a weapon in the first place and I informed her that when I arrived I observed the guards at each entrance simply carding those who looked young, there were no pat-downs or wandings happening. I informed her that I saw her doing this as well as two other guards at the three entrances. At this point I was told I was not welcome back to the event at all.

I tried to have a friend record the encounter, as I didn't want to go reaching into pockets while surrounded but she managed to miss the key part, where after the officer returned my ID and LTCF I went around and asked each of them their name and who they represent. I do remember it was PPD Officer Montgomery. Possibly Badge #3894? I do not remember the lady representing Xfinity Live and I only remember the security reps first name was Mia. I didn't think I'd be relying on my memory, I was hoping the video would have it.

At the end of the day, I only wanted to see my buddies band, I don't care for Lit or Buckcherry so this gave my party and I a reason to leave early.

And yet another "polite" Philadelphia Police officer surfaces like a ripe hemorrhoid.