Castle Doctrine Question - Repeat Car Burglar

[ArcticSplash]

One of my friends is getting her Civic broken into repeatedly. The second time this happend she caught the guy. The dude is a mechanic who has master keys. This is her words:

Can I just say I love my neighbors!! Just about a half hour ago, the thief who broke into my car, returned to steal it and actually started the car, but stalled it twice. My neighbor heard my car, looked out his window and yelled and the guy got out leaving my car running. 3 of Philly's finest came out and acted so strange that my neighbors thought we were in the twighlight zone, so when the one officer started yelling at my neighbor who is a 5 foot spitfire grandma, I had to send the officers on their way cause they were useless anyway, no report, no fingerprint dusting, just fussing about the key jammed in the ignition.

ugh...think it's time to get rid of my car? Seems to be a bit too hot?

The vehicle is parked on public property (the street), there is no off-street parking in front of her house. My house is in the similar set up---rowhomes with no off-street parking.

I want to know if Castle Doctrine will cover (grant immunity from prosecution, civil or criminal) if she or I take the following steps when this man returns again:

1. Proceed out of the house, armed
2. Walk over to the vehicle, facing the driver's seat where he was last time (and is likely to be again the next time he tries to steal the car)
3. Point the gun at his head, hold him at gunpoint, then have a neighbor call PPD over.


This is what I am reading in the Castle Doctrine:

Title 18(1)(5)
[code]
(5) No person should be required to surrender his or her
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personal safety to a criminal, nor should a person be
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required to needlessly retreat in the face of intrusion or
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attack outside the person's home or vehicle.
[/quote]

So this clause equivocates personal homes with vehicles.


Now... here's the Breaking and Entering clause that gives Castle Doctrine its teeth:

(2.4) (2.5)  Unless one of the exceptions under paragraph
<--
4	
(2.2) applies, a person who unlawfully and by force enters or
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attempts to enter an actor's dwelling, residence or occupied
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vehicle or removes or attempts to remove another against that
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other's will from the actor's dwelling, residence or occupied
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vehicle is presumed to be doing so with the intent to commit:
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(i)  an act resulting in death or serious bodily
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injury; or
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(ii)  kidnapping or sexual intercourse by force or
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threat.

The law uses the words "occupied vehicle" rather than "vehicle", so it's not OK to pull the trigger unless he does something else that triggers Castle. Like for instance, he reaches for a gun and you can see that he has one--you can then pull the trigger and dump a magazine into him.



The only way I can see to deal with this guy without worrying about the DA's office is to take out a baseball bat and start beating the crap out of him while he's in the car, and then shoot him if he reaches for a gun.



GunLawyer? This guy has come back for the same car within 48 hours and the last time PPD was out, it wasn't that great a response.

[BimmerJon]

No

If you're looking for ways to shoot someone "legally"... you're doing it wrong.

[Shadowline]

IANAL but it seems someone is looking for a reason to pull a gun. If non-threatened person were to draw a gun to defend an unoccupied vehicle that person shouldn't have a gun. Now if the thief threatens the life of the victim AND the victim fears for her life, then sure...pull that gun.

Really, its a used vehicle that is presumably insured. I wouldn't suggest putting life and freedom at risk to protect it.

[4tun8]

If it were me, I wouldn't risk my life to protect my car. My life > my property. Set up a video camera, catch him in the act, then go to the authorities.

[ArcticSplash]

No

If you're looking for ways to shoot someone "legally"... you're doing it wrong.

Understandable. This is a block that is close (literally, the next block up) to a major heroin trade corridor. It's not exactly what I would call shangrila. The dealers stay away from the ladies who live on this block because they all have 26th dispatch on speed-dial and several of them are armed. They slash tires of customers who park on their block looking to walk up to the dealers, etc.


Seeking out a way to get this Puerto Rican mechanic who is determined to steal this car to move along. I've told her to start disconnecting the battery and bringing it inside the house. He'll have to push it down Kensington Avenue to steal it now.

[VinDyl]

If he is in the car and you are not and it is on a public street. My guess would be your gonna get arrested for pulling a gun on them and holding them at gun point. Now here at my home in my garage or driveway which is 150 ft long and your in the car I feel is a different situation.

[ArcticSplash]

If it were me, I wouldn't risk my life to protect my car. My life > my property. Set up a video camera, catch him in the act, then go to the authorities.

The PPD looks the other way to an old-fashioned neighborhood beat down. She's going to be getting cameras, but the next time he comes out he's getting the bat with the weight on it. I'm lending her my weighted slugger and she's going to start hauling the car battery into the house for the duration of the winter.

[Shadowline]

The PPD looks the other way to an old-fashioned neighborhood beat down. She's going to be getting cameras, but the next time he comes out he's getting the bat with the weight on it. I'm lending her my weighted slugger and she's going to start hauling the car battery into the house for the duration of the winter.

Its obvious this thread is just your way to look for ways to get away with, or justify committing crimes. You don't want the right solution, you just want to justify thug behavior. Have fun beating people up and pulling your gun. Hope you get caught.

[streaker69]

The PPD looks the other way to an old-fashioned neighborhood beat down. She's going to be getting cameras, but the next time he comes out he's getting the bat with the weight on it. I'm lending her my weighted slugger and she's going to start hauling the car battery into the house for the duration of the winter.

So you are advocating that she assault someone and you're providing her with the tool of the crime? That's interesting.

[knight0334]

You cannot use deadly force to stop a burglary of a vehicle unless you are actually occupying the vehicle.

If someone is merely breaking into your car while you are looking upon from outside of it - deadly force is not justified.

Now, you can effect an arrest for felonies you have reason to believe occurred, or breaches of the peace you personally witnessed - and if needed, use necessary force(note: "force", not "deadly force"), to effect an arrest.

Legally though, you are best off being a good witness rather than attempting to arrest someone. A person isn't awarded civil immunities for improper common law arrests. Nor do the police care for people "doing their job". ...the police have been known to cite a person vindictively for even making a lawful arrest.