Escorted Out...

[flyingjunkie]

So I got escorted out of the Mall at Robinson yesterday for OC. I have been there dozens of times and walked past I don't even know how many security guards there and have never had a hard time. Yesterday, I had to stop by to drop off something for a friend that works there. I stopped in and BSed for a bit, then we decided to make a loop around the mall like we have in the past to kill some time. I was just about to the door and about to walk out when I had a gentleman walk up behind me with his 300 lb (and I'm not even exaggerating...) female security guard.

Him (with Brutus standing behind him): Sir, we have a "no weapons" policy here, so we're going to have to ask you to leave.

Me: Really? I've been here countless times like this and I've looked for signs but I've never seen one and I've never had a problem in the past.

Him: Well, this is private property and we have rules.

Me: Oh. I understand that completely and I respect your rights. Would you mind showing me the sign so I know for future reference?

Him: Absolutely

We walked to the door together where he showed me a sign that was on a side wall that had fine print on it that says "No person shall carry any weapons, knives, firearms, etc..."

Me: Man it sucks that I can't spend my money here anymore... I spend at least a couple hundred a month here and now I have to find somewhere else to spend it...

Him: Well, you're more than welcome to come back in, you just have to leave your firearm in your car.

Me: So what you're telling me is that you would like me to remove my firearm that I am VERY extensively trained to use between my military service and personal training and leave it in my car where some unlawful individual could get a hold of it and possibly rob yourself, one of your customers or store employees here, then I can come back in here completely defenseless and have to worry about said individual holding me up or shooting me with my own gun, all the while relying on your 300lb security guard to waddle across the mall, which will likely take 5-10 minutes, to get to me so that she can call the cops and an ambulance because she, too, is unarmed, which will likely take 15-20 minutes to get here. Chances are, I'm dead. I think I'll just keep my gun on my hip and go spend my money elsewhere. You know what the sad thing is, tho? I was able to OC into a BANK* today with no problem. A BANK! But I can't carry to go shopping in a mall. Sad...

On that note, I bid him a good day, went to my car and left. Like I said, it's a shame that I can't spend my money there, but I refuse to subject myself and my loved ones to an environment where we are required to be left so vulnerable. The only people who obey the laws are the law-abiding citizens. That gang banger or thief or mugger don't care about the laws. "When you outlaw guns, only outlaws have guns."

*I OCed into the PNC Bank in Robinson today to cash a check. I was greeted at the door. I noticed the greeter look down at my gun, but again made eye contact with me and asked how they could help me. I told them I had a check I'd like to cash, to which they pointed me towards a teller. I went up to the teller (a very nice gentleman who also greeted me), he cashed my check, we chatted about the weather for a minute, we parted ways and I left. No one care about my gun in a building in an industry that is always a target to get robbed. They talked to me and handled the customer and didn't even seem to care about my gun. Quite sad about the mall. Maybe they should ask PNC how they handle security and weapons policies. They could really learn something...

[BimmerJon]

Just conceal it

[Shadowline]

Don't know that the 300 lb security guard needed to be insulted because the owner (whom was not present) decided to make a policy. Good job killing the messengers though.

[Shadowline]

Just conceal it

What a lame response. Instead of willfully shitting on the property owner's rights just spend your money elsewhere.

[flyingjunkie]

Don't know that the 300 lb security guard needed to be insulted because the owner (whom was not present) decided to make a policy. Good job killing the messengers though.

I didn't say it to her face. I'm not that ignorant. By the time we got to the sign and he told me I could leave my gun in the car, she had turned and walked away. It's hard to convey the tone of the conversation here, but I didn't raise my voice, I didn't get snippy with the guy, I just wanted to convey that I was upset about getting hassled for something I consider to be mundane in hopes that he could understand why I was upset and possibly pass that along. I wasn't ignorant or condescending with him either nor was he to me. We both parted on what I consider good terms. I didn't shoot the messenger. In fact, by the way he acted, it almost seemed as tho he sympathized with me, but was stuck in a position that he had to do his job.

[flyingjunkie]

Just conceal it

I don't do that. If I can't carry open, I don't go there. That in it's own right is deceitful and, as said before, is just shitting on the property owners rights. Not to mention it's also unlawful. I was unaware of policy at the time and have now been informed and won't go back.

[BestDefense=StrongOffense]

Just be glad that gecko45 wasn't there...

[bowkillpa]

I would call the property owner and complain about there rent a cops for not enforcing there policy. In the past if you had to defend yourself "unaware of the policy" wouldn't hold water.

I don't do that. If I can't carry open, I don't go there. That in it's own right is deceitful and, as said before, is just shitting on the property owners rights. Not to mention it's also unlawful. I was unaware of policy at the time and have now been informed and won't go back.

[ChamberedRound]

Just conceal it

Once an individual has been informed of a property owner's/manager's policy, future attempts to disobey their request is Defiant Trespass.

This is true regardless of whether the policy in question is in regards to firearms, smoking, or any other reason not specifically protected in any federal/state civil rights statutes.

[ViperGTS19801]

Look, the security guard was not trying to strip you of any of your rights. In fact, he was trying to be helpful, by offering you a solution to your problem (which you expressed by lamenting not being able to spend money there anymore).

Malls and movie theaters are a little bit different than when the police tell you to cover up or leave it in the car. If the person asking you to do those things is an employee of a private property owner, they are being paid to enforce that particular policy. If they don't enforce it, they can lose their jobs, which is often the ONLY motivation for them to even be talking to you. Sounds like damned good motivation to me. I don't ever fault the security guard at the mall who occasionally has the unfortunate task of walking up to a man who clearly has a weapon, and telling him that he has to leave.

The mindset has to be different in how we look at the police who talk to us, and the private sector employees who do. One of them has the right to ask us to leave which is equal to our right to bear arms in the eyes of the law, and there's no point in getting upset over it. The other is often just jealous.

I'm not saying I like it. That's just the way it is. A part of me always wants to be a smartass to the Rent-A-Cop at the mall who informs me of the previously unknown (on my part) policy. But he's a dog, answering to a master's direction, and there's nothing to be gained but smug self-satisfaction. "Oh, okay, I was unaware that there was a policy, and I didn't see any signs. Can you show me, please?" <- this is perfectly acceptable. Going off on a tirade about it, not that I am saying you did btw, is a waste of your own energy.

Either cover it up, lock it up elsewhere, or don't go there. Each choice has a benefit and a disadvantage. Every one of us has a different opinion on which ones are right, wrong, or indifferent, but none of us are incorrect.