Security work and carrying...

[Christ]

I work shifts as an on-call security "watch" during the night when my friend who is actually employed by the company needs time off. I'm on IC status as a W9 contractor for the company, who does NOT require (or want us to have) firearms during our time on duty.

Company policy not withstanding, am I legally required to possess Act 235 clearance to carry while I'm on duty under the circumstance that I'm carrying for my own safety and not as a result of conditions of employment?

Bear in mind that I could actually be terminated from employment if the right person heard that I had my sidearm while on "their time", but that's a matter of company policy. I need to know what the law says regarding this.

[XavierBK]

I work shifts as an on-call security "watch" during the night when my friend who is actually employed by the company needs time off. I'm on IC status as a W9 contractor for the company, who does NOT require (or want us to have) firearms during our time on duty.

Company policy not withstanding, am I legally required to possess Act 235 clearance to carry while I'm on duty under the circumstance that I'm carrying for my own safety and not as a result of conditions of employment?

Bear in mind that I could actually be terminated from employment if the right person heard that I had my sidearm while on "their time", but that's a matter of company policy. I need to know what the law says regarding this.

As I understand it, Act 235 is only for when your employer requires you to carry a firearm. If you choose to ignore policy and carry for your own protection you do not need to be Act 235 certified.

[gascolator]

But if they have a "no firearms" policy on their property, you could be trespassing even though in their employ.

[Swarner793]

The issue becomes sticky, but it would be unusual to be charged criminally for not possessing a LWTA Cert while working there. Having a firearm on a well site could lead to BIG problems for the Security Company should it be discovered.

A bigger issue is working as "security" on a W-9 violates PA Title 22, specifically The Private Detective Act of 1953, pertinent part included at the end. Unlicensed acts can be an M3. It is quickly becoming an issue in the gas fields. To comply with the the Statute, one would need to be an actual employee, not a subcontractor. Just a heads up, you seemed concerned about legalities.

Be safe (and compliant).

Scott

http://weblinks.westlaw.com/toc/defa...A1D11E4E517443

Title 22 P.S. Detectives
Private Detective Act of 1953
§ 13. Licenses
(a) No person, partnership, association or corporation, shall engage in the business of private detective, or the business of investigator, or the business of watch, guard or patrol agency, for the purpose of furnishing guards or patrolmen or other persons to protect persons or property, or to prevent the theft or the unlawful taking of goods, wares and merchandise, or to prevent the misappropriation or concealment of goods, wares, merchandise, money, bonds, stocks, documents, and other articles of value, for hire or reward, or advertise his or their business to be that of detective, or of a detective agency, or investigator, or watch, guard or patrol agency, notwithstanding the name or title used in describing such agency, or notwithstanding the fact that other functions and services may also be performed for fee, hire or reward, without having first obtained a license so to do as hereinafter provided.


(b) No person, partnership, association, or corporation, shall engage in the business of furnishing or supplying for fee, hire, or any consideration or reward, information as to the personal character or activities of any person, partnership, corporation, society, or association, or any person or group of persons, or as to the character or kind of the business and occupation of any person, partnership, association, or corporation, or own or conduct or maintain a bureau or agency for the above mentioned purposes, except exclusively as to the financial rating, standing, and credit responsibility of persons, partnerships, associations, or corporations, or as to the personal habits and financial responsibility of applicants for insurance, indemnity bonds, or commercial credit, or of claimants under insurance policies: Provided, That the business so exempted does not embrace other activities described in subsections (a), (b) and (c) of section two of this act, [FN1] without having first obtained, as hereafter provided, a license so to do, for each such bureau or agency, and for each and every subagency, office and branch office to be owned, conducted, managed, or maintained by such persons, partnership, association, or corporation, for the conduct of such business.


(c) Nothing contained in this section shall be deemed to include the business of investigators for or adjusters for insurance companies, nor persons in the exclusive employment of common carriers subject to regulation by the interstate commerce commission or the Public Utility Commission of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, nor any telephone, telegraph or other telecommunications company subject to regulation by the Federal Communications Commission or the Public Utility Commission of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania or an employe of any such company while performing any investigatory activities engaged in by his employer, or investigators in the employment of credit bureaus.

[johnpsu]

Try Google and the search feature on PAFOA...

http://www.lethalweapons.state.pa.us

The Lethal Weapons Training Act provides for the training and certification of watch guards, protective patrolmen, detectives and criminal investigators, carrying and using lethal weapons in their employment

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/03...r21/s21.2.html

§ 21.2. Mandatory certification. Privately employed agents, regardless of their place of residence or employers’ location who, as an incidence to their employment, carry a lethal weapon within this Commonwealth. Training schools or instructors shall be certified by the Commissioner prior to engaging in any activity which is regulated by the act.

[Christ]

Try Google and the search feature on PAFOA...

http://www.lethalweapons.state.pa.us

The Lethal Weapons Training Act provides for the training and certification of watch guards, protective patrolmen, detectives and criminal investigators, carrying and using lethal weapons in their employment

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/03...r21/s21.2.html

§ 21.2. Mandatory certification. Privately employed agents, regardless of their place of residence or employers’ location who, as an incidence to their employment, carry a lethal weapon within this Commonwealth. Training schools or instructors shall be certified by the Commissioner prior to engaging in any activity which is regulated by the act.

I did, but it only raised the same question. I'm not a legal expert, so I seek the opinions (based on the law) of others before committing to a decision.

I'm aware I can be considered in trespass if discovered with a firearm, but I'm not concerned by it. We're not actually allowed on the locations, we're only external observers. We're supposed to report problems or trespassers on location, but only at road crossings where equipment is kept overnight and that can be accessed from public roads.

To be more descript, what I actually do is park my car along the road or in a nearby pull off, stand at the easement to the location and use a light, to the best of my ability, to ensure that things haven't been moved, altered, or otherwise dispositioned by nature or unauthorized persons. If all's well, I record a secure location and move on. If something is wrong, I'm supposed to call the local/state police, then my boss, and stand by, out of the way, observing if safe to do so.

My problem (and the reason I still carry on duty) is that if I encounter a person and shine a light directly at them or their proximity, there's a good chance that said intruder could attempt to alleviate me of my duty in the non-clocking-out method. It /is/ rural PA, after all. At many of these crossings, there isn't a house within earshot. If there is, it's an elderly person/family and they've been asleep since supper time.

[Christ]

http://weblinks.westlaw.com/toc/defa...A1D11E4E517443

Title 22 P.S. Detectives
Private Detective Act of 1953
§ 13. Licenses

Thank you for this. I just emailed the head of the area about it to find out what the corporate lawyers have to say.