had my first LEO encounter today

[philly.dan]

i was walking home from Cottman and Frankford ave. while oc'ing my sw40ve when i saw a couple of leo's going to make a turn so i stopped to let them turn the corner when they stopped in the middle of the intersection and rolled down the window.

leo: do you have a permit for that.
me: yes i have a licence to carry.
leo: may i see it?
me: sure. (showed him my ltcf)
leo: okay have a good day. ( handing me back my ltcf)
me: okay you do the same.

now i know some may say that i should have said no to showing my ltcf but everyone handles things differently and that is how i chose to handle that situation.

[West Chester]

No one should say NO to you showing your LTCF when its required to OC in a city of the first class.

[philly.dan]

i am just going off of threads i have read where people say you don't have to show it if you are doing nothing illegal.

also: if anyone lives in the northeast philly area i am going to the double tap shooting range on saturday.

[gascolator]

i am just going off of threads i have read where people say you don't have to show it if you are doing nothing illegal.

Outside Philly (Pa's only first-class city), you'd be dead right. Inside Philly, refusing to show it is tantamount to refusing to show your driver's license to a LEO who requests it while you're operating a motor vehicle. Why? Because when in Philly and OC, you are engaging in an activity which requires an LTCF.

If you'd said "no, I won't show you" you wouldn't have had a leg to stand on when you were drawn upon, disarmed, cuffed, and searched.

[bill gray]

Kudos to the Philly Police. They handled it just as it should be ( by the Philly specific rules that is).

[K.C.]

Kudos to the Philly Police. They handled it just as it should be.

Most likely thanks to our boy Mark (ViperGTS19801) .

[gascolator]

Good for the OP in not asserting a "right" that he didn't have under the law while in Philly.

[priell3]

Sounds good to me.

[twency]

... Inside Philly, refusing to show it is tantamount to refusing to show your driver's license to a LEO who requests it while you're operating a motor vehicle. ...

According to the U.S. Supreme Court it is a violation of the Fourth Amendment to stop a vehicle for no reason other than to check whether the driver is licensed when there's no reasonable suspicion that he isn't licensed. -Delaware v. Prouse

From the syllabus (which isn't part of the decision, but is a good summary of it):

Except where there is at least articulable and reasonable suspicion that a motorist is unlicensed or that an automobile is not registered, or that either the vehicle or an occupant is otherwise subject to seizure for violation of law, stopping an automobile and detaining the driver in order to check his driver's license and the registration of the automobile are unreasonable under the Fourth Amendment.

Note, this doesn't necessarily apply to systematic checkpoints, which the court has found have different standards than traffic stops.

Also note, I am NOT arguing the OP or anyone else should have done differently or should do differently in the future. You have to pick your battles. If similarly accosted by the PPD I might well choose to show my LTCF, so I'm not at all criticizing the OP.

[EandGWZ]

Outside Philly (Pa's only first-class city), you'd be dead right. Inside Philly, refusing to show it is tantamount to refusing to show your driver's license to a LEO who requests it while you're operating a motor vehicle. Why? Because when in Philly and OC, you are engaging in an activity which requires an LTCF.

If you'd said "no, I won't show you" you wouldn't have had a leg to stand on when you were drawn upon, disarmed, cuffed, and searched.

Yes

With a shocking altercation between Philadelphia police and a 25-year-old IT worker putting the spotlight back on open-carry gun laws, local authorities are warning gun owners that they will be "inconvenienced" if they carry unconcealed handguns in the city.


Lt. Raymond Evers, a spokesman for the city police, told FoxNews.com that gun owners who open carry, which is legal in the city, may be asked to lay on the ground until officers feel safe while they check permits.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...#ixzz26yuG6OuT