"Bean-bag" or rubber bullet rounds?

[Tacgunner]

There's been several posts about shooting outside of ones house/on their property of late. What if these rounds fired had been "non-lethal" rounds? How does PA law stand on these being used to defend ones abode/property?

Yes, I know most of us would want a clear cut situation as an example, but we all know nothing ever goes as planned. How about this example:

Simply, it's O'Dark Hundred Hours, and outside there's a ruckus of noise. Looking out the window you find a person, or persons, messing about with your car/garage/whatever. You shout to scare them off and the reply is along the lines of "F-you". You do the right thing and ring 911, but you know no one will show for some time. You again tell your "friends" outside to move along and get the same reply, and you "think" you see a pistol in the hand of the nice person. At this point can you proceed to thump them in the chest/back/leg with a bean-bag round or other "less-lethel" round?

Does PA have any laws that address the use of these rounds by other than LEOs?

[LastManOut]

I'm not sure about the LEO question, but if you decide to shoot "beanbags" and the BG has JHP's in his tool bag, your are screwed.

DON'T DO IT!

[BenningBoy]

Castle Doctrine legislation is currently in the works, hold off on buying those and see what the law becomes.

[knight0334]

Those types of rounds aren't non-lethal, they are less-than-lethal that can still cause death or serious bodily injury - which still require justification to use deadly force. In a worst case scenario all you'd do is piss off an aggressor and escalate a violent confrontation to bloodshed. You may not shoot unless yours or someone else's life is in danger. There are provisions for justification though if they are in your place of abode.

Those bean bag or rubber bullet things are a tactical and legal bad idea. If your life is in that much danger you use real ammo.

[FUNDAMENTALS]

The Question I have is: At what range do they become Lethal? There
have been incidents where they have inflicted severe bodily injury and
have caused death. Besides if the perp is armed, he is not worried about
using less than lethal force on you.

[reverserboy]

In a situation like that a big can of pepper spray / bear spray would probably be better.

When cops show up perps will still say you shot at them,which you did. News media will report "homeowner fires shotgun at boys".

I would not do it.

[Tacgunner]

So basically a criminal can do whatever they so desire on your property as long as they do not directly threaten you?
You can't threaten them off, you can't shoot at them with any type of projectile (even paintball), so what's the point of even owning a gun for protection of your home?
Honestly, the law has made it possible for the criminal to do whatever he wants to your property, and you have no legal recourse. Seems to me the laws truly need to change. It's just not right that dirtbags can steal my hard earned property and then file charges on me when I try to stop them from robbing me.

[knight0334]

So basically a criminal can do whatever they so desire on your property as long as they do not directly threaten you?
You can't threaten them off, you can't shoot at them with any type of projectile (even paintball), so what's the point of even owning a gun for protection of your home?
Honestly, the law has made it possible for the criminal to do whatever he wants to your property, and you have no legal recourse. Seems to me the laws truly need to change. It's just not right that dirtbags can steal my hard earned property and then file charges on me when I try to stop them from robbing me.

Property within the home and outside of the home have different procedures. The law does provide some for protecting items within the home, and entry/reentry of a place of abode, and felonies committed within a dwelling, not so much for items outside of the home. No matter what - someone's life is more valuable than your property. ...and thats the way it is damn near everywhere. It takes a forcible act or an act of violence to make it a shootable incident. Take states like FL or OK... you cant shoot for stealing, but you can shoot because they broke into your home(burglary = forcible felony).

There's other things that can be done though. If you witness a crime, you do have the right to arrest them. ...gotta be careful though because if done improperly you can be sued.

Even if you and the courts construe the laws of PA to allow for the shooting or other uses of force without criminal penalties - you can still be sued by the victim or their families in a civil court.

PA's use of force law is under Title 18, Chapter 5. §507 deals specifically with use of force for protecting property. PA's laws on firearms is easy to understand for the most part, but the wording of the use of force laws is rather twisted.

http://www.acslpa.org/pa_uniform_firearms_act.htm

[knight0334]

Also note that there is a legal difference between "force" and "deadly force". One is a little more liberally allowed, the other is restricted to more serious times.

[XD45]

I don't believe bean bag rounds considered less than lethal force in PA, such as a taser or pepper spray. You can pepper spray or taze someone for alot less than you could even think about using your firearm in some cases, but having rubber bullets or a bean bag doesn't change that you or someone else needs to be in immediate danger to use that firearm so if the choice has been made to use it your going to want the proper results for the situation at hand.


But i'm not a lawer, so thats worth what you paid for it