OC Lebanon Sheetz First LEO Encounter

[Moosefraba]

My first encounter with an officer happened at the Lebanon Sheetz and left me confused as to how a "seasoned" officer has never encountered this or even know the law he is trying to enforce. Fun fact there is no law against it, nor for it. So he is enforcing his own imagination.

Happened around 02:00 when myself and a friend went in to grab a late night bite. We entered the front doors and walked up to the POS to order food. I was OCing a G26 in a BH CQC OWB Holster. I ignored the 3 cops talking by the barista station and after completing my order immediatley walked to the restroom. After doing my deed I returned to my friend and we paid for our items together then walked back past the 3 cops again and waited for our orders to be completed. I noticed the three of them had stopped talking now and were staring directly at us but I ignored the glares.

Once the food was handed over to us we went back and forth as to whether or not to stay and eat or go home. We decided to stay and eat and that's when one of the officers for Cornwall Township(CTO) decided to chime in his two cents...

CTO- Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Buddy where are you going with that?

Me: Im not sure what you are speaking of officer.

CTO- Do you have a permit for that?

Me: For what? (I knew what he meant)

CTO- Your pistol. It must be concealed if you have a Concealed Carry Permit. Why do you have that anyway?

Me: Good thing I do not have a CCWP then isnt it. I carry for my safety or as it says on my LTCF "Self-Defense".

I proceed to walk towards the dining tables.

CTO- Do you have some ID?

Me: I do.

CTO- May I see it Sir?

Me: Sure. ( I reach into my pocket and retrieve my ID which happens to be in the pocket below my holster while I walk back towards him and the other officers)

CTO- Slowly. (hand on his pistol)

Me: Sure thing officer. (hand him my ID)

CTO- May I also see your Concealed carry permit?

Me: No because I do not have one. I do however have a LTCF and you may see that however that is at home and im not walking there and back again. We walked here from my house on 16th Street and I open carried without my LTCF.

CTO- Okay well you know Concealed means concealed right? I mean really? You got the permit and it states that you must carry concealed. you are breaking the law by not doing so, cover it up. Really I am doing you a favor by not confiscating it and detaining you right now.

Me: PA is an open carry state. It is my understanding that if I do not have my LTCF on my person I will be breaking the law by CCing. I would like my ID back since you've already sent my information to dispatch and according to whomever has radioed back I was cleared. Since I havent broken any laws and im not under arrest I would like to continue my business. ( at this point the other two much younger officers laugh)

CTO- One minute...
CTO steps away and makes a phone call. my guess is to see if OC is really legal. Who he could call at 2am is unknown to me. Dispatch? State Police? Who knows.

Me: Is he serious right now. He has to make a phone call while im waiting here??

Young Officer 1-- your legal sir i believe he is cross referancing to make sure for himself (steps away to CTO)

Young officer 2--- he's a hardass. just stick to your guns. no pun intended.

CTO- Here is your ID sir. You do not have to leave the premisis but you're at a gas station late at night with a firearm. Makes people uneasy you know?

Me: Thanks. But I dont see anyone uneasy right now but you.(as we walked away laughing at him) Loudly to friend: Night ruined by an idiot in a uniform.

Friend(also loudly):You would think law enforcement would at least know the laws they are enforcing.



Now I know the situation could have gone differently both on my side and his but I dont deal with stupidity very well. I know i can OC here and I know I dont have to be a prick. Yes his job is hard. Yes my job to comply with him is not hard. But the very least an officer can do is atleast know the law. you are paid to enforce laws not make up your own.

[XavierBK]

Should have told him to screw off when he asked for your ID.

[Moosefraba]

I rather enjoy putting people in their place, not always but when the mood strikes me I givein to thee inner dick that is me. I wish i would have written his superior officer to show them how ignorant his/her officers are.

[XavierBK]

You wish you had written to his superiors? I take it this wasn't a recent encounter then?

[Moosefraba]

about 2 months ago. i havent been active here for almost a year. and even then i couldnt really be called active. more of a troll. reading but never posting. decided to share the encounter.

[XavierBK]

about 2 months ago. i havent been active here for almost a year. and even then i couldnt really be called active. more of a troll. reading but never posting. decided to share the encounter.

I'd say it was recent enough that you could still contact the department.

Also, FYI, what you described is a lurker, not a troll. A troll is someone who posts stuff with the intent of annoying people.

[Moosefraba]

I stand corrected. thanks. I will have to do some looking around for the officers name again. I know I have it written down somewhere around here.

[twency]

It is my understanding that if I do not have my LTCF on my person I will be breaking the law by CCing.

I think you did well. Strictly speaking the law doesn't say your LTCF has to be on your person for you to CC. If faced with a "lawful demand" you must either produce it then or at a preliminary hearing, so it's advisable to have it with you, but it wouldn't have been illegal for you to cover up.

But that's a minor quibble and it sounds like you handled it well.

[BimmerJon]

I would've never produced ID and then demanded a supervisor to come on scene to smack that idiot cop up

[Moosefraba]

I saw it as an educational experience for myself and the LEO. I in all cases have produced ID to a LEO when asked for it just to avoid confrontation. If i dont have ID I know my ID number and they can look me up.

on the flip side of things if im stopped in my car and asked for my information i request his first. may not be a cop at my window.