Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 22
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Philly suburbs, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    6
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Chester County Courthouse - no gun policy for jury duty

    I recently received a summons for Jury Duty from Chester County. In the "metal detectors" section of the summons letter it states:

    "Please do not bring any pocketknives, knitting needles, guns, scissors or mace."

    I understand per 18 Pa.C.S. 913, courthouses are required to have storage facilities available to secure firearms, but I'm confused as to why they specifically say not to bring them. Additonally, when I call the "Jury Information Line", the lady on the recorded message states the same thing. Using the search function of this website, I've found a few threads from 2010/11 that mention the courthouse, but nothing notable regarding anybody's experience with jury duty specifically:

    Encounter at Chester County Justice Center:
    http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...ce-center.html
    the Deputy stated that "Only police are allowed to carry to the courthouse and you should leave your gun at home next time."
    Chester County Government Offices - nogo:
    http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...ices-nogo.html

    County offices?:
    http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-car...y-offices.html
    Member "craigc" had jury duty on 9-26-11 per the thread, but there was no follow up post indicating how it went.
    So, my question is - has anybody gone to the Chester County Justice Center for jury duty with a gun and been allowed to put it in the lockers before reporting (without being hassled)?

    Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
    (Dauphin County)
    Posts
    1,889
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Chester County Courthouse - no gun policy for jury duty

    Chester County Justice Center has plenty enough lockers for firearms and "other dangerous weapons" (which "pocketknives, knitting needles, guns, scissors or mace" are probably not when you read 18 Pa.C.S. 908 pari materia with 18 Pa.C.S. 913, meaning the latter probably does not bar their possession in court facilities via that section of statute). If you haven't been there, you go through the front doors, and the security arrays are in front of you many yards. But the room of lockers is off to the right and back, meaning you never even need to reach the array to find a locker. Whether you can physically access a locker without asking county officers or sheriffs, as the case may be, is another question.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Bucks County, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
    Posts
    2,424
    Rep Power
    21474851

    Default Re: Chester County Courthouse - no gun policy for jury duty

    Take your gun, the big, ugly, scary looking one,,,, wait, , strike that, take two of your biggest, nastiest, 'cops can't even carry something this offensive' guns, and a voice recorder. Turn the VR on before you get to the door. Taht way they don't see you turn it on and they'll be tempted to give you the full JBT treatment. When they do, and they will, tell them , "Ok , you explain to the Judge why you kept me from doing my civic duty, why YOU denied me one of the priviledges afforded me as a US citizen". Get adamant!!
    Then offer to sue the piss out of him personally for violating state law and violating your rights. Then follow through. Next : come back here and relate the story so we can all have a laugh at the asshole's expense.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Southern end, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    147
    Rep Power
    3674638

    Default Re: Chester County Courthouse - no gun policy for jury duty

    Wear your gun as you please.

    They will tell you what they wish, but at least some of the deputies
    there know the law.
    As was stated, the lockers are immediately inside the door, to the right. Walk on up as the citizen you are, lock your things, and proceed to the metal detectors with a smile on your face.

    Some of the deputies may try to see your LTCF, I leave mine in the vehicle.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    West chester, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    1,087
    Rep Power
    47332

    Default Re: Chester County Courthouse - no gun policy for jury duty

    From what I remember from another thread sheriff welsh is very pro 2a and has no issue correcting her deputies when it's brought to her attention. If you have any problem I would not hesitate to contact her. From what I can remember front that thread her response was quick and positive.


    Edit found thread I was looking for.

    http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...-responds.html
    Last edited by B.A.; September 4th, 2012 at 06:58 PM.
    WHEN DEMOCRACY TURNS TO TYRANNY, THE ARMED CITIZEN STILL GETS TO VOTE

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Philly suburbs, Pennsylvania
    Posts
    6
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Chester County Courthouse - no gun policy for jury duty

    Quote Originally Posted by Manxdriver View Post
    Take your gun, the big, ugly, scary looking one,,,, wait, , strike that, take two of your biggest, nastiest, 'cops can't even carry something this offensive' guns, and a voice recorder. Turn the VR on before you get to the door. Taht way they don't see you turn it on and they'll be tempted to give you the full JBT treatment. When they do, and they will, tell them , "Ok , you explain to the Judge why you kept me from doing my civic duty, why YOU denied me one of the priviledges afforded me as a US citizen". Get adamant!!
    Then offer to sue the piss out of him personally for violating state law and violating your rights. Then follow through. Next : come back here and relate the story so we can all have a laugh at the asshole's expense.
    Yeah, that sounds like a fun time, but I think I'll pass

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Harrisburg, Pennsylvania
    (Dauphin County)
    Posts
    1,889
    Rep Power
    0

    Default Re: Chester County Courthouse - no gun policy for jury duty

    Quote Originally Posted by B.A. View Post
    From what I remember from another thread sheriff welsh is very pro 2a and has no issue correcting her deputies when it's brought to her attention. If you have any problem I would not hesitate to contact her.
    No, it seems that Welsh is actually a douchebag that believes the right to bear arms ought to be questioned.
    http://forum.pafoa.org/news-123/1005...ourthouse.html

    Newspaper excerpts:

    . . . Benjamin was then handcuffed and taken to the sheriff's lockup. On Thursday, Sheriff Carolyn "Bunny" Welsh praised her deputies for having responded appropriately to the situation. "Probably one of the most dangerous situations in a courthouse is walking through the front door with a handgun," Welsh said. "People at the security monitors are vitally important to maintaining safety and order here, especially when it involves domestic situations or family courts, because they can be so volatile." It was unclear Thursday whether Benjamin purposefully meant to bring the gun to the hearing in Domestic Relations. . . . "I think the officers involved acted absolutely appropriately, and I am very pleased," said Welsh. "It was a job well done. We literally dodged a bullet." . . .

    and

    . . . Not only do deputies have to be vigilant of prisoners — who have attempted to sneak razor blades and makeshift handcuff keys into the justice center — but deputies also have to be watchful of members of the public who go to the courthouse. Welsh said one of the most dangerous places in the courthouse is not in criminal court, but family court, where emotions are high during custody and spousal disputes. Additionally, disgruntled employees or defendants displeased with a judge’s verdict add an element of danger. Once, a man without a license to carry a firearm had a loaded gun inside his briefcase, which deputies discovered through an X-ray machine at the entrance, Welsh said. “Had he gotten that weapon in and gone up to that quiet hearing room - to me it made me shudder because … he could’ve shot everyone in the room,” Welsh said. . . .

    If you want to "walk through the front door with a handgun" to place it in a locker, there are few situations which are more dangerous, says Welsh. Everyone who carries a gun into a court room is going to shoot the place up, says Welsh.

    Contrast with this excerpt from the 1874 Pa. Constitution convention debates:

    "Although the act of Assembly is against carrying arms secretly in that way, yet they fall back on the Constitution, which they say authorizes the bearing of arms, and therefore the act of Assembly is unconstitutional. [It] has been made constantly a matter of defence, and it gives the courts great annoyance."
    "I think this amendments should prevail and the word “openly” should go in for this simple reason, that in some portions of the State they have local laws against carrying concealed deadly weapons, and when that question was brought before one of the courts of Philadelphia, one of the judges declared that a person upon the witness stand who had a pistol concealed on his person had a constitutional right to carry that pistol concealed . . ."


    Good job, Welsh. Right on. Tally ho.
    Last edited by MDJschool; September 4th, 2012 at 10:26 PM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    West chester, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    1,087
    Rep Power
    47332

    Default Re: Chester County Courthouse - no gun policy for jury duty

    MDJ
    I don't really see your point. According to that article the person in question was clearly in violation of 2 laws. 1) carrying a concealed weapon with out a ltcf and 2) attempting to bring said weapon in the court.

    If he walked up and said " I have a firearm and would like to check it" and that resulted in the cituation described in the article I'd agree with you. But he was clearly breaking laws. Regardless of if he "forgot" he had it in his bag. In two and half years of carrying I've never "forgot" where my pistol was. It's not as if a pistol is a set of car keys.

    I get the statements she made aren't exactly what were looking for in a 2a poster child but she is a sheriff which is nothing more than a politician with a badge. Perhaps she's come around a little in the last 2 years who knows. She's even fairly liberal with NFA sign offs from what I've been told.
    WHEN DEMOCRACY TURNS TO TYRANNY, THE ARMED CITIZEN STILL GETS TO VOTE

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Southern end, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Posts
    147
    Rep Power
    3674638

    Default Re: Chester County Courthouse - no gun policy for jury duty

    Quote Originally Posted by Chagrin View Post
    So, my question is - has anybody gone to the Chester County Justice Center for jury duty with a gun and been allowed to put it in the lockers before reporting (without being hassled)?

    Thanks!
    As of summer 2011, short answer, yes.

    I was questioned by the female officer at the detector. She wanted to know what department I worked for as she noticed me OC and head straight to the lockers. As she asked for my "permit", fellow officer in the next lane informed her "You aren't allowed to ask that!" (He did make me leave my glass water bottle, said "Here, I can hold that for you, if you want.")

    Next officer up the steps also asked..."You gotta have a "permit" to carry that in here. As I was on foot, I could not oblige him if I wished. "Well, next time make sure you have it, you have to have it to lock up a gun. The jury room is up the elevator..."

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Greensburg, Pennsylvania
    (Westmoreland County)
    Age
    43
    Posts
    188
    Rep Power
    5092469

    Default Re: Chester County Courthouse - no gun policy for jury duty

    Quote Originally Posted by howard stiffy View Post
    As of summer 2011, short answer, yes.

    I was questioned by the female officer at the detector. She wanted to know what department I worked for as she noticed me OC and head straight to the lockers. As she asked for my "permit", fellow officer in the next lane informed her "You aren't allowed to ask that!" (He did make me leave my glass water bottle, said "Here, I can hold that for you, if you want.")

    Next officer up the steps also asked..."You gotta have a "permit" to carry that in here. As I was on foot, I could not oblige him if I wished. "Well, next time make sure you have it, you have to have it to lock up a gun. The jury room is up the elevator..."
    Wow...These were actually Sheriffs deputies, from the same office that issues licenses and they mis-quote the term? I woulda locked up my firearm (so as I wouldn't pose any kind of a threat) then asked why they have the badge on their uniform if they don't really know the law....or more specific, the correct wording of the law (per them being representatives and when need be, enforcers of said law)....

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Lehigh County and Jury Duty Summon
    By filgun11 in forum Concealed & Open Carry
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: July 29th, 2012, 10:04 AM
  2. Cumberland County Court House / Jury Duty -- UPDATE
    By daschnoz in forum Concealed & Open Carry
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: January 23rd, 2012, 08:11 PM
  3. Replies: 15
    Last Post: November 26th, 2009, 10:37 AM
  4. Jury Duty in York County
    By 87th PVI in forum General
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: November 2nd, 2009, 12:59 PM
  5. Jury Duty... lehigh county
    By countryboy1365 in forum General
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: August 21st, 2009, 02:25 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •