Carring in Courthouse Annex???

[allen16323]

I am writing this in wondering if CC or OC i legal in annex building of courthouses assuming that it doesn't have any hearing rooms in it, hence no courtroom facilities?

"Court facility."

The courtroom of a court of record; a courtroom of a community court; the courtroom of a district justice; a courtroom of the Philadelphia Municipal Court; a courtroom of the Pittsburgh Magistrates Court; a courtroom of the Traffic Court of Philadelphia; judge's chambers; witness rooms; jury deliberation rooms; attorney conference rooms; prisoner holding cells; offices of court clerks, the district attorney, the sheriff and probation and parole officers; and any adjoining corridors.


Or does the hihighlight part put the whole are off limits? If so would they not be required to have lockers in the annex enterance also?

[Statkowski]

Yes, and Yes.

What's in the annex that makes it an annex?

[Statkowski]

Most importantly, is it posted?

[allen16323]

Most importantly, is it posted?

have looked and have not seen any signage anywhere.

[twency]

have looked and have not seen any signage anywhere.

Are there metal detectors or any other indication you are prohibited from carrying there?

(Note, I am not suggesting that you should carry in violation of any law just because you might get away with it. Rather, I'm trying to figure out whether the folks in charge of courthouse security consider the annex part of the court facility.)

[allen16323]

Are there metal detectors or any other indication you are prohibited from carrying there?

(Note, I am not suggesting that you should carry in violation of any law just because you might get away with it. Rather, I'm trying to figure out whether the folks in charge of courthouse security consider the annex part of the court facility.)

It is Court House Square and there are no metal detectors, no signs and by law it is considered a court fac. being the sheriff's office is located in the building, so off limits!!!!! And will inform them they need to post lockers and more employees to man the doors and security check points and by saying that if I mean that if i enter the building and am asked "do you know you are not allowed to carry in a court fac.?" I would answer yes as all of us know it is not allowed, and bang by my own admission i am breaking the law.

[twency]

It is Court House Square and there are no metal detectors, no signs and by law it is considered a court fac. being the sheriff's office is located in the building, so off limits!!!!! And will inform them they need to post lockers and more employees to man the doors and security check points and by saying that if I mean that if i enter the building and am asked "do you know you are not allowed to carry in a court fac.?" I would answer yes as all of us know it is not allowed, and bang by my own admission i am breaking the law.

The whole building isn't necessarily a "court facility", it can merely contain a "court facility" area within it as I read 18 Pa.C.S. § 913.

However I agree that the whole building is supposed to have notices posted at each public entrance, and it should also have facilities for checking firearms.

[TaePo]

have looked and have not seen any signage anywhere.

I know this is old but recently noticed on recent trips so instead of posting my 'new' info in a new thread:

I just had to go to the Annex Thursday and Friday. When I went Thursday, I thought it would be excepted so didn't check for signage outside. I went up the stairs from foyer to third floor (the last floor). Did not notice signage but wasn't looking either.

I noticed that the Treasurer's office is in the building (where the hunting and dog licenses are also done), HR upstairs, ankle monitoring, juvenile or some probation office and a couple of others.

When I went in Friday, I did not notice any outdoor signs. This time I was lazy so decided to use the elevators. While waiting, I noticed a square plastic red sign mentioning no firearms allowed. This cannot be seen if you take the stairs. They mention the right chapter and verse and ask that you go to the sheriff's office to secure the weapon. (This is wrong but I think they meant to go to the metal detector entrance which may be newer than the sign.) Then you can go to any sterile area in either building. Not sure if they have since locked the rear entrance to prevent people from purposefully or accidentally avoiding a check-in/discovery.

The sign was pretty long and the elevator came before I could read it and learn it. If I go back, I will be more aware to get the info.

So basically, they claim it is a 'no carry zone'. If it really is, I don't know but maybe the Treasurers office or one of the others makes it so or they may be attorney conference rooms or holding facilities there. The jail is nearby in another building so don't know if holding cells necessary per se but whatever.

I should add that it is quite possible I missed some signage at the stairs as I was looking at the office signage showing what floor each department was on. The sign at the elevator was 6"x8" but the writing was pretty small.

[Statkowski]

So far you've mentioned that both probation offices and the sheriff's office are located in the annex. Thus, it is indeed a court facility.

Being a court facility, state law requires it be clearly posted and have some form of storage facilities.

Perhaps a hard-copy letter to the county commissioners, with an info copy to the court administrator would be in order. Cite the law, when it was enacted, and ask when they are expecting to comply with the law.

[TaePo]

So far you've mentioned that both probation offices and the sheriff's office are located in the annex. Thus, it is indeed a court facility.

Being a court facility, state law requires it be clearly posted and have some form of storage facilities.

Perhaps a hard-copy letter to the county commissioners, with an info copy to the court administrator would be in order. Cite the law, when it was enacted, and ask when they are expecting to comply with the law.

As for the sheriff's office, it is in the main courthouse across the street in the 'sterile' section. It is a little confusing. The sign basically sends you back to the main courthouse to posit the weapon. However, the sign I saw was well within the lobby and to the left of the Annex.

ETA = I went to the website to reconstruct as best as I could what offices there are in the Annex building and at least one from memory (Ankle bracelets). There was another spot on the third floor but not sure if the adult/juvenile part of probation/restitution etc. But here is the list I have:

Entrance (Ground Floor)

Treasurer (1st Floor)
Fiscal Department (1st Floor)
Management Information Systems (1st Floor)
Tax Claim Bureau (1st Floor)
Voter Registration/Elections (1st Floor)

County Commissioners (2nd Floor)
Domestic Relations (2nd Floor)

Court Supervision (3rd Floor) - the adult intermediate punishment and juvenile probation departments were merged. …staff are currently responsible for a plethora of tasks including: preparing recommendations for the Court, supervision of offenders, collection of fines, costs, and restitution, coordinating treatment of offenders and implementing programs designed to increase offender competencies and reduce recidivism.
Human Resources (3rd Floor)
Ankle Bracelets (3rd Floor)

Although I tried, this is not an exhaustive or all inclusive listing necessarily. The probation departments on the third floor may be what constitutes 'no guns' being defined. Not sure if that fits the state definitions as a 'Court house'. There could be various conference rooms as well.