Threaten to defend gesture...

**SyCastro** · August 20th, 2012, 07:25 PM

Here's what happened. My friend is driving and another driver is driving extremely close to his rear bumper for about a mile. My friend speeds up and then misses his left turn into his wife work place by inches. Ironically, the driver behind him pulls into that driveway. So my friend makes a U-turn and proceeds to drive into the driveway when all of the sudden they driver from the other vehicle stops his car, steps out and yells out "You following me?" while his right hand is on his holstered gun.

I was stunned and my eyes were locked 20-20 on his hand. I was CC and thought to myself, "Oh crap!"

So my friend gets out of the car and yells back, "What's wrong with you? Are you crazy" I'm not following you! I'm picking up my wife!" And the guy responded, "Yeah well you better watch yourself". Meanwhile I'm in the car with my hand on my G19 ready to pull it if needed.

Thankfully the guy got back in his car and proceeded to go to the main entrance of the Daycare facility. Now my buddy called the cops because the guy made a threatening gesture. The cops came and confiscated the guys gun.

The guy explained to police that he thought my friend was a threat. This could have gone bad but thank God it didn't. Did the officer's have the right to confiscate that guys gun?

**Preble Pro** · August 20th, 2012, 07:45 PM

I would say, YES. Since his life was not being threatened, he had no justification to threaten deadly force on your friend.

Also, since he instigated the encounter, he would be in hot water had he pulled an pointed it at him.

As you well know, if you carry a firearm, YOU need to avoid being confrontational in this type of situation.

If you have to defend yourself from someone else's aggression, that is a different story.

**Sniper061** · August 20th, 2012, 08:15 PM

I would agree with Preble on this one. The man who instigated the incident was at best being extremely irresponsible with the handling of a firearm. You never know why he was in his current frame of mind. He might have just gotten fired, served divorce papers, etc. at which point it is time to put the pistol away until you get your head screwed on straight.

Regardless, what he did was at least a disorderly conduct charge:

§ 5503. Disorderly conduct.
(a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of disorderly
conduct if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance
or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
(1) engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or
tumultuous behavior;
(2) makes unreasonable noise;
(3) uses obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture;
or
(4) creates a hazardous or physically offensive
condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of
the actor.

I'm no lawyer but the bolded and underlined sections are my interpretation of what he did.

**OldSchoolPC** · August 20th, 2012, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by Sniper061

I would agree with Preble on this one. The man who instigated the incident was at best being extremely irresponsible with the handling of a firearm. You never know why he was in his current frame of mind. He might have just gotten fired, served divorce papers, etc. at which point it is time to put the pistol away until you get your head screwed on straight.

Regardless, what he did was at least a disorderly conduct charge:

I'm no lawyer but the bolded and underlined sections are my interpretation of what he did.

This was a qualifier.

intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance
or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:

So there'd need to be intention, OR a reckless risk (irregardless of intent). Then, read to see if 1-4 applies.

IANAL

**gnbrotz** · August 20th, 2012, 08:20 PM

Whether disorderly conduct is chargeable or not, I'm wondering what the legal grounds are for seizing a legally possessed gun that was merely touched, not fired, or even drawn from it's holster?

**OldSchoolPC** · August 20th, 2012, 08:22 PM

As for other threats, such as harassment or verbal assault. We'd need more info. I would like to point out that resting his hand on his gun, and drawing his weapon are very different. Perhaps, he only did it because he felt threatened because he thought that somebody was following him, then saw that you were armed.

**American1776** · August 20th, 2012, 08:24 PM

I wonder, is the other guy someone on these forums?

**streaker69** · August 20th, 2012, 08:25 PM

Sounds like a misunderstanding on both sides. I think much of the populace needs to just relax and stop being so goddamn uptight.

**CenterTree** · August 20th, 2012, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by OldSchoolPC

As for other threats, such as harassment or verbal assault. We'd need more info. I would like to point out that resting his hand on his gun, and drawing his weapon are very different. Perhaps, he only did it because he felt threatened because he thought that somebody was following him, then saw that you were armed.

I don't think the guy saw the OP CCIng.

I was CC and thought to myself, "Oh crap!"

So my friend gets out of the car and yells back, "What's wrong with you? Are you crazy" I'm not following you! I'm picking up my wife!" And the guy responded, "Yeah well you better watch yourself". Meanwhile I'm in the car with my hand on my G19 ready to pull it if needed.

**Sniper061** · August 20th, 2012, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by CenterTree

I don't think the guy saw the OP CCIng.

Spot on. That is what I saw in the post which took it from "misunderstanding on both sides" to possible disorderly conduct. I see no reason to even touch your firearm while going about your daily activities unless you need it for defense.

The way I see it, the instigator was yelling at the OP and his friend with little to no cause AND put his hand on his pistol as a way to make a point. I would see that as recklessly creating a risk of public alarm and engaging in threatening behavior against the OP's friend.