Boxed in by 7 of Philly's finest, guns drawn and everything

[Valorius]

The lady who reported the incident should be made known. If she added to the story of her report to ensure a police response, then there should be civil and criminal actions possible for reckless endangerment, filing false reports, denial of civil rights etc.

Would never work. The only way to even get the cops to show up in Philly is to use the word "gun."

[Rik Bitter]

I wonder if the folks in SUV #1 would consider this a good encounter. They got the same drawdown and most likely did not have a gun on them.

You can almost hear it:

PPDs Finest: Where's the gun Junior!?
Serf: I don't know what you're talking about Officer.
PPDs Finest: We got a call about a man with a gun matching your description, now where is it!
Serf: I don't have a gun.
PPDs Finest: Outta the car! Spread your shit!
...

Poor guy.

[Valorius]

I wonder if the folks in SUV #1 would consider this a good encounter. They got the same drawdown and most likely did not have a gun on them.

You can almost hear it:

PPDs Finest: Where's the gun Junior!?
Serf: I don't know what you're talking about Officer.
PPDs Finest: We got a call about a man with a gun matching your description, now where is it!
Serf: I don't have a gun.
PPDs Finest: Outta the car! Spread your shit!
...

Poor guy.

Sadly, i've been that guy in Philly in the past too. It rocks coming home from mom's house late at night and almost getting murdered by 2 Philly cops because someone else robbed a seven eleven in a car that matches your description.

[daschnoz]

All because my gun was visible while I was pumping gas.

From the beginning:

I'm driving to Philly to pick up my sister because she wanted to come home for the weekend. I am on where 309 turns into Broad St. and notice that I am getting low on gas. While filling up, I didn't notice any weird stares or anything like that. The only person who made eye contact with me was an older Asian lady, but she didn't seem to be frightened or worried. I get back on Broad St. and continue down for about 5 blocks when the car next to me gets pulled over at a red light. The cop gets out of his car, gun in hand, and goes to the driver side (I could no longer see what was happening because I was in the right lane.) Seconds later, another cop appears out of no where, but his gun is pointed at the vehicle. He swings open the passenger side door and points the gun at the man's head, commanding him to keep his hands in the air. The gun was literally inches away from the suspect's head. The light turns green and I high tail it out of there, not wanting to be nearby in case some lead starts flying.

At first I chalked it up to some drug dealers getting busted, but then the coincidences start to add up. 1) The police were treating these men like they were armed 2) they were driving a dark SUV similar to mine 3) just five minutes beforehand I was out in public while open carrying. At this point I was 50% sure that they got the wrong car and were actually looking for me. Sure enough, after a few minutes of pondering if I was going to get pulled over, two cop cars pull out of oncoming traffic and stop right in front of my vehicle. Both of them jump out, guns drawn and pointed at my head through my front wind shield. I am told to put my hands up so I follow their instructions (obviously). A quick glance in the rear view mirror and all I see is red and blue. Within 10 seconds, there are SEVEN cop cars surrounding my vehicle from every side. One of the first officers on the scene tries to open my driver side door, but it was locked. He tells me to slowly unlock my door. At this point I was hesitant because I didn't want to spook the other cops and end up with a donut-sized hole in my dome, but I eventually put my left hand down to hit the unlock switch. He wastes no time at all, reaching across my body and disarming me. He puts the car in park and turns it off, and finally says that I can put my hands down.

*FH = Fuck Head

FH 1: Do you have a license to carry that?
Me: Yes
FH 1: ... well?
Me: Do you want to see it?
FH 1: Yes please, and if everything checks out, then we'll have you on your way.

While that cop was running my LTCF, another one comes up to my window.

FH 2: Hey, you have a license for that?
Me: *points the other officer who has my license*
FH 2: Oh OK, yea. Just so you know, what you were doing is completely legal. Open carrying is legal and is your right. But sometimes...
Me: ...sometimes things like this happen?
FH 2: Yea.
Me: That's awesome.

He frowns at me and walks away. A minute later, another idiot comes up to my window.

FH 3: So you were just at a gas station, right?
Me: ...
FH 3: Well, a woman saw that you had a gun, called us, and followed you out of the gas station.
Me: What did she say? Was I making any threatening gestures? Did I take the gun out of the holster? I don't understand how anything I did warranted this type of response from you guys.
FH 3: I don't know what she said. It's just protocol. When we get a call about someone carrying a gun, we don't know what that person is up to.
Me: Yea, whatever.

There was no point arguing with these baboons. At this point I just wanted to get my gun back and go on with my trip.

FH 1 begins to walk back to my car, NOT holding my gun. I already knew what he was about to say.

FH 1: When we ru-
Me: Yea, it doesn't show up in the record of sales database under my name. The State Police screwed up. I bought it at reputable gun shop and have all the paper work to go along with it.
FH 1: OK no problem, you'll be on your way in a second. Thanks for hanging in there, man.

A minute later, my property is returned to me and I am told to chamber a round after they leave. Hey, at at least they were nice to me after they pointed their service pistols at my fucking head. Overall, I'd say this was a positive encounter for the Philadelphia Police Department. It took less than 5 minutes and I didn't get charged with disorderly conduct, nor was my property stolen from me. Oh yea, I wasn't shot either, so that's a plus!

You should have let him finish is sentence. He was about to admit (in a round about way) that the PSP "database" is being used as a handgun registry.

Either way, is there any possibility of obtaining an audio recording of this stop? I'm sure Kim Stolfer would love to get his hands on that one.

[ViperGTS19801]

I'm sending you a PM, if you're interested in pursuing a complaint or something.

Guns drawn on someone that was "within their rights?" This behavior needs to stop. I'm somewhat amazed that they don't get it yet.

When did this happen?

[photoshooter]

Cops REALLY need to screen their callers a bit more. I mean..."There is a man with a gun" should be followed up with questions:

Well, yes in the real world I agree with you. But I have a strange feeling they actually enjoy this type of thing.
Pointing a gun at a citizen is a very serious thing. I'm not sure how and why it got to be so routine.

Viper's encounter got some decent media attention. And in those very same media reports we had,
"Lt. Raymond Evers, a spokesman for the city police, told FoxNews.com that gun owners who open carry, which is legal in the city, may be asked to lay on the ground until officers feel safe while they check permits."

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011...#ixzz23uEM9fNh

This is basically a public proclamation that civil rights will knowingly be violated. It's going to take a bigger lawsuit.
Let's imagine for a moment a statement was issued that Mexicans may be asked to lay on the ground for safety reasons until their citizenship status is verified to prevent US infiltration from drug cartels. How long would that behavior last?

[CartBone69]

Hey, at at least they were nice to me after they pointed their service pistols at my fucking head. Overall, I'd say this was a positive encounter for the Philadelphia Police Department. It took less than 5 minutes and I didn't get charged with disorderly conduct, nor was my property stolen from me. Oh yea, I wasn't shot either, so that's a plus!

I think I'm gonna take a break from this forum did a while...

The majority has been taken over by members that fully represent the quote in my sig

It's like being a member of a "rape victims" forum and every other thread is a post like
"well, I think it went well. Wasn't too bad of an encounter"

I think hes being sarcastic if you read it he says "Hey, at at least they were nice to me after they pointed their service pistols at my fucking head. Overall, I'd say this was a positive encounter for the Philadelphia Police Department. It took less than 5 minutes and I didn't get charged with disorderly conduct, nor was my property stolen from me. Oh yea, I wasn't shot either, so that's a plus!" Which it does sounds like a great encounter for the PPD. But based on what he said before and after that statement i think a reasonable person could read that as being a sarcastic statement. Now if he would of said overall, id say this was a positive encounter for ME, then that would of been a different story.

[HiredGoon]

Curious as to why they did not confiscate your gun since it was not in the sales database...just because they accepted your word that you had the sales paperwork and that PSP screwed up?

WOW, I think you were damn lucky they didn't keep it.

Of course I know there are valid reasons for a gun not to be in that "registry" and they would have had no right to take it based on just that...just sayin' though because it was Philly you think they would have trampled on your rights and just kept it.

[ForwardAssist]

Cops REALLY need to screen their callers a bit more. I mean..."There is a man with a gun" should be followed up with questions:

"Is he threatening anyone?" No.
"Is he brandishing it?" No.
"Is he even touching it?" No.
"Is it holstered in plain view?" Yes.
"What is the man doing?" Minding his own business.


No need for action. DUH. Why do cops cater to idiots? That woman gets to go along the rest of her day just fine. The OP almost got killed.

And yes it is true, if the OP had been shot (even accidentally), they'd have just said he threatened them...and he'd have had no witnesses to the contrary. Sigh. That's pretty scary.

Probably because there would be a media heyday if a citizen called in a MWAG call, the cops didn't respond, and a violent act was subsequently committed.

And besides, the law enforcement community is not about to willingly relinquish one of their remaining avenues of Reasonably Articulable Suspicion. When random stops were ruled illegal the community sought out new methods, namely public safety and regulatory based stops. It's a mechanism.

[Greywolf]

Ah, yes.

Yet another case of "suspicion of engaging in lawful activity."

FH 3: I don't know what she said. It's just protocol. When we get a call about someone carrying a gun, we don't know what that person is up to.

And therein lies the problem. Officer, if you don't know what the MWAG is doing when you get a call ... ASK! As Cakeshooter said, ask the idjit who made the call, and if the answers don't suggest anything illegal, tell the caller to have a nice day.

The problem is that too many departments make it standard protocol to respond to ALL calls about a MWAG as if he's a mad dog serial killer, rather than making any effort to figure out what's going on before calling out the SWAT team. It IS scary, and it IS going to get people killed. And that's why it's WRONG.