Massad Ayoob Resolves Point Shooting Debate

[Matthew Temkin]

Massad Ayoob Resolves Point Shooting Debate

In November of 1990 Mas Ayoob started the latest Point vs. Aimed fire debate with his article "Point Shooting--Combat Hoax" in Handguns magazine.
Flash forward to 2012 where, in his new book, "Combat Shooting"
(Where both Roger Phillips and Tom Kohl--A/K/A 7677-- are mentioned)
Mas writes this,
" A lot of egos, my own included, have become involved in the heated debate over aimed fire versus point shooting, over body position index versus visual index. If you can accomplish both, and have both types of response instantly accessible, you are already past the argument.
In other words--learn both!!!
Amen to that....

[Mtbkski]

Guess you can teach an old dog new tricks.

[Shawn.L]

In other words--learn both!!!
Amen to that....

I would contend that not only is no one person , gun rag writer or not, the font of all tactical truth and therefore able to resolve an argument with an opinion but that sighted fire allows one to learn to shoot from index, where unsighted fire doesn't work the other way around.
To me, the answer is learn to use your sights and then be able to expand your skills once you have a consistent index.

[Marlin60]

To me, the answer is learn to use your sights and then be able to expand your skills once you have a consistent index.

Agreed. Versatility can be advantageous. In adrenaline situations, you tend to fall back to your level of training (someone here has a nice quote in their sig). It's probably best to train for both types of shooting, with one being your primary or favored/go-to method.

[rmagill]

Agreed. Versatility can be advantageous. In adrenaline situations, you tend to fall back to your level of training (someone here has a nice quote in their sig).

During my department's active shooter trainings I use both methods. If I have the time/advantage, I tend to use sighted fire. However, if the threat is much closer or I don't have the time for a sighted shot I index. I have found both methods to be equally accurate, but YMMV.

[DaveM55]

Point shooting = flash sight picture?

[Mtbkski]

Way I see it... if it really didn't work. It would have faded away as an option by now. Real shooters would have seen it as a farce and would have spread the word about how bogus it is. But it is still, around and being taught. There has to be something to it. Not saying it is better... Just saying it works. And works well enough to still be around after all this time.

[workingmanjeff]

Point shooting = flash sight picture?

What it is depends on who's method of point shooting you follow

Google up Matt Temkin's protege Robin Brown aka "Brownie" and point shooting and you'll get the whole boatload

Quick Kill, Quick Fire, F-A-S, Aimed Point shooting, threat focused shooting.

Im sure Mas Ayoob has his own "method" coming soon

[Shawn.L]

Way I see it... if it really didn't work. It would have faded away as an option by now. Real shooters would have seen it as a farce and would have spread the word about how bogus it is. But it is still, around and being taught. There has to be something to it. Not saying it is better... Just saying it works. And works well enough to still be around after all this time.

I have to disagree. Not about this topic in particular ( there are way too many definitions and styles of "point shooting" and we dont know what we are referencing here to even discuss it) , but about

if it really didn't work. It would have faded away as an option by now.

there's A LOT of snake oil out there, and it comes and goes and sometimes sticks around.

[Mtbkski]

Yep, sure is a lot of snake oil. I'm not sure exactly what he is talking about either. But it probably is either what some people call point shooting, while others call it instinctive shooting.

I'm sure that Ayoob would tell you to learn to use your sights. But he may have had enough of an opportunity to work with, try out, train others with, and just study the basics of whatever it is he is talking about (again, my guess is instinctive shooting).

I don't believe it is the one where you shoot with the middle finger and the other one goes up along the side of the gun. That is even too weird for me.

I have taken a instinctive shooting course. And at the end of it, even the Nay Sayers who said they were taking the class to prove it wasn't that good, had to admit that it worked.( I will also point out that it worked great for some, and others had a hard time doing it)

Here is a video of me shooting at the end of the Instinctive shooting class that I took. Sights (front and rear) on my pistol are still covered with black electrical tape and have been the entire class. I put four rounds into each plate, while moving and all my rounds hit (you can hear the instructor say this at the end of my run.) Heck, most guys using sights couldn't do this. So, for someone to say that instinctive shooting doesn't work, well, I can show you right here that it does. And this was only after one day of doing this. Imagine if you practiced this all the time.

I still try to use my sights all the time, but I know know that I can effectively use my firearm without them if I had too.

Me shooting at the Instinctive Shooting Course in Lewistown, PA.