0.00 BAC?

[tvtog]

Looking to the (official/unofficial) lawyers here. I took a Utah certification class a couple weeks ago. Something was mentioned and reinforced but I need to know if this is a Pennsylvania law as well.

Now...to me, it's common sense that if one is intoxicated, carrying a handgun would not be considered solid judgment.

That said...when I go out to dinner I will have one drink and on the occasion of a lengthy event I might have two. My standard is NOT .08 but probably closer to .02.

The Utah class instructor said that, when carrying, 0.00 is what is legally acceptable.

If that is true, I need to assess risk as to whether I want to have a drink and not carry. Or not have a drink and carry. Obviously the whole point of carrying is that we do not know when a threat might present itself.

I feel as confident of my abilities after one drink as with none. After three? well...a false confidence appears at that point methinks.

But the basic question remains.

If a LEO sees me take a drink while a Glock is on my hip....am I in the deep stuff?

[Justin///M]

No, this is false. He is just giving his opinion.

This (drinking while carrying) has been discussed ad nauseam at PAFOA. It invariably leads to a multi-page debate and often ends in temp ban or two.

Personally, I will carry and have a drink or two with dinner on occasion. I left the need to get drunk behind in my 20's, so that isn't a concern for me. In the off chance that I do want to get drunk, it'll be in my house..., not at a bar or restaurant.

YMWV

Justin

[tvtog]

Thanks Justin....I need to remember to search the archives. But sometimes a quick question yields quick and current responses.

I think you're on the same page as I am. I don't get drunk. But if I were to go out to a nice dinner (say...tonight) I might feel less than prepared with nothing on my belt.

[Justin///M]

Thanks Justin....I need to remember to search the archives. But sometimes a quick question yields quick and current responses.

I think you're on the same page as I am. I don't get drunk. But if I were to go out to a nice dinner (say...tonight) I might feel less than prepared with nothing on my belt.

I agree. I don't leave the house unarmed and no one is telling me I can't have a beer or two with dinner.

Justin

[Statkowski]

If someone can find a UFA statute mentioning alcohol and firearms, other than a habitual drunkard being prohibited from getting an LTCF, I'm sure we'd all like to see the law on such.

[donm]

Looking to the (official/unofficial) lawyers here. I took a Utah certification class a couple weeks ago. Something was mentioned and reinforced but I need to know if this is a Pennsylvania law as well.

Now...to me, it's common sense that if one is intoxicated, carrying a handgun would not be considered solid judgment.

Remember that he was teaching a UTAH course, and it is illegal to carry while intoxicated (same standard as driving) there. In many states, it is illegal to drink at all while carrying (e.g., Ohio, Tennessee, and Virginia if concealed). In PA, use your judgment. I will have a beer or glass of wine with dinner while carrying. If I'm riding my motorcycle, my limit is zero.

[internet troll]

Looking to the (official/unofficial) lawyers here. I took a Utah certification class a couple weeks ago. Something was mentioned and reinforced but I need to know if this is a Pennsylvania law as well.

Now...to me, it's common sense that if one is intoxicated, carrying a handgun would not be considered solid judgment.

That said...when I go out to dinner I will have one drink and on the occasion of a lengthy event I might have two. My standard is NOT .08 but probably closer to .02.

The Utah class instructor said that, when carrying, 0.00 is what is legally acceptable.

If that is true, I need to assess risk as to whether I want to have a drink and not carry. Or not have a drink and carry. Obviously the whole point of carrying is that we do not know when a threat might present itself.

I feel as confident of my abilities after one drink as with none. After three? well...a false confidence appears at that point methinks.

But the basic question remains.

If a LEO sees me take a drink while a Glock is on my hip....am I in the deep stuff?

Basically it comes down to the idea that you don't give up your right to self defense because you had a couple of drinks in Pa. But as usual, carrying is a responsibility and you need to know your self.

If you are the type of person who quickly loses their judgment when drinking and tend to make bad decisions when inebriated, you might want to reconsider drinking and carrying. If you aren't then no problem. Just need to know yourself.

Bottom line, in Pa it's your call. Imo

[Philbert]

Looking to the (official/unofficial) lawyers here. I took a Utah certification class a couple weeks ago. Something was mentioned and reinforced but I need to know if this is a Pennsylvania law as well.

Now...to me, it's common sense that if one is intoxicated, carrying a handgun would not be considered solid judgment.

That said...when I go out to dinner I will have one drink and on the occasion of a lengthy event I might have two. My standard is NOT .08 but probably closer to .02.

The Utah class instructor said that, when carrying, 0.00 is what is legally acceptable.

If that is true, I need to assess risk as to whether I want to have a drink and not carry. Or not have a drink and carry. Obviously the whole point of carrying is that we do not know when a threat might present itself.

I feel as confident of my abilities after one drink as with none. After three? well...a false confidence appears at that point methinks.

But the basic question remains.

If a LEO sees me take a drink while a Glock is on my hip....am I in the deep stuff?

Utah makes it illegal to carry a gun if you're too drunk to drive a car. I believe 0.08 BAC is the standard.

Does that apply in PA, when you have a PA LTCF? Tough question. You won't be in the "deep stuff" in PA because it's not illegal to drink and carry here. I don't know what Utah expects its license holders to do in other states, and whether they'd care if you were found with a beer and a gun in PA.

[dm_n_stuff]

Just let me be devil's advocate for a moment.

Why would you endanger those around you by carrying a handgun and then having anything that might impair your judgment or affect your aim in your system?

A gun is not a car, if you've had one two many, you call a cab, get a ride home, do whatever. If you're half way to drunk, and you're concealed carrying, are you gonna hand the gun over to a designated carrier? Uh, no.

Why risk the lives of anyone around you by being impaired and carrying? I just don't get that, and while .04 might not be legally intoxicated, I guarantee you you've got slower reflexes, your aim is affected, and you may not be able to properly assess risk. Legal? I really don't know. Prudent? Not in my book.

And before anyone tells me to climb off my soapbox, I do carry, and I don't drink, so the issue would never come up for me.

[palawstudent]

No, this is false. He is just giving his opinion.

This (drinking while carrying) has been discussed ad nauseam at PAFOA. It invariably leads to a multi-page debate and often ends in temp ban or two.

Personally, I will carry and have a drink or two with dinner on occasion. I left the need to get drunk behind in my 20's, so that isn't a concern for me. In the off chance that I do want to get drunk, it'll be in my house..., not at a bar or restaurant.

YMWV

Justin

I have 1 beer if I will be somewhere for less than an hour and 2 beers if I am going to be somewhere for over an hour. I don't drink any more than 2 beers, and I don't drink anything stronger than beer. Worse case scenario is I secure my firearms in a lock box that is attached to my truck and concealed. Unless someone knows where my lockbox is hidden in my truck and has a pair of wire/cable cutters on them, then I should be okay.

To make things "interesting", imagine this scenario: You had a barbecue at your house and the last guests leave. You just finished cleaning up and got into bed. For sake of argument, your BAC is at least a .08, but you are feeling buzzed/semi-drunk. You hear a door close down stairs, but you know your family is all ready in bed. You grab your "night stand handgun", go down stairs to investigate, and see somebody you don't know in your living room with some type of object in their hand (assume the lights are off in the room, but due to outside lights or the stars/moon you at least know you do not know this individual). Fearing for your life and the lives of your family members, you discharge your firearm and neutralize the threat. You turn on the lights and realize in his hand was a flashlight. The police arrive and an investigation is conducted over the course of a few days. Imagine if the DA's office wants to file charges against you because you were buzzed/semi-drunk at the time and believe your judgement was impaired. Or imagine if the burglar's family wants to sue you over the same allegations. I'm no expert, but the castle doctrine may cover you in this situation. Anyways, does anybody have any thoughts about this? As a resident of Philadelphia, I could actually see this situation occurring (DA's office pressing charges and/or burglar's family trying to sue).