Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default When your only tool is a gun...

    Last night my girlfriend and I went over to her mothers house to help kick out the people (a male and female) staying with her. I went there more to make sure nothing got out of hand and help with the heavy lifting. But my girlfriend was fairly upset at them (rightfully so). She spent most of the time outside arguing with the male while I was trying to get all the heavy lifting done while the female helped organize and sort out their property from my girlfriend's mother's. The male is pretty harmless and he wasn't the one raising hell as much as my girlfriend so I judged that it was alright to leave them unattended. As I was bringing some of the furniture out, the neighbor popped her head out the window and started yelling at my girlfriend and the male to keep it down, and that her baby was trying to sleep. Well of course since the woman came off with an attitude my girlfriend responded with attitude . Well as they are going back and forth, the woman starts threatening to come down and kick my girlfriends ass. Thankfully that didn't happen but I was trying to come up with a game plan if she did come down. All I had was my firearms. So the thought running through my head was, "when you're only tool is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail". I knew I wouldn't want to use the firearm if she came outside without any weaponry which would be likely. So now I'm finally getting to my question...

    In the same situation, how would you prefer to handle the angry/hostile woman?

    I really wish I had some sort of OC spray for that situation. I think that would be the best way to handle a solitary threat that doesn't have any weapons. But at the same time it's not practical for me to carry spray everyday like my gun. Maybe carry it depending on the situation (like going to the city where this occurred?).

    Edit: just want to point out that I wouldn't have taken any action until the woman made contact first. But would have positioned myself accordingly.
    Last edited by Shisno; July 26th, 2012 at 12:00 PM.
    Practicing free speech outside of the designated free speech zones.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: When your only tool is a gun...

    Well, police officers have to deal with physical altercations from time to time without it coming to the use of weapons or even pepper spray. Your mere presence (Whether the firearm is showing or not) might be enough to deter the would-be combatants from going at it if you place yourself between them.

    If words fail and things get physical, in this particular situation you have size and likely strength to your advantage. You could probably just shove the woman back and make her lose her footing. I doubt you would have had to worry about her going for your gun. If she had, well, that's why people sometimes have to get their jaws wired shut. Retention plays a big part in this.

    I think the real worry here would be making sure your girlfriend doesn't step up the violence by joining in, or by continuing with verbal taunts. She seems a bit on the volatile side, and by not controlling her will end up looking like the aggressor rather than someone trying to deescalate the situation.

    While possessing a firearm makes me want to avoid a toe-to-toe clash as much as I can, it's not always possible. I guess the main thing is to size up each situation (And potential combatant) and make a choice as to what to do. Drawing a gun on an unarmed, roid-raging, heavily muscled refrigerator of a man will go over better with the police than drawing that same gun on a diminutive - if very loud and violent - woman.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: When your only tool is a gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shisno View Post
    Last night my girlfriend and I went over to her mothers house to help kick out the people (a male and female) staying with her. I went there more to make sure nothing got out of hand and help with the heavy lifting. But my girlfriend was fairly upset at them (rightfully so). She spent most of the time outside arguing with the male while I was trying to get all the heavy lifting done while the female helped organize and sort out their property from my girlfriend's mother's. The male is pretty harmless and he wasn't the one raising hell as much as my girlfriend so I judged that it was alright to leave them unattended. As I was bringing some of the furniture out, the neighbor popped her head out the window and started yelling at my girlfriend and the male to keep it down, and that her baby was trying to sleep. Well of course since the woman came off with an attitude my girlfriend responded with attitude . Well as they are going back and forth, the woman starts threatening to come down and kick my girlfriends ass. Thankfully that didn't happen but I was trying to come up with a game plan if she did come down. All I had was my firearms. So the thought running through my head was, "when you're only tool is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a nail". I knew I wouldn't want to use the firearm if she came outside without any weaponry which would be likely. So now I'm finally getting to my question...

    In the same situation, how would you prefer to handle the angry/hostile woman?

    I really wish I had some sort of OC spray for that situation. I think that would be the best way to handle a solitary threat that doesn't have any weapons. But at the same time it's not practical for me to carry spray everyday like my gun. Maybe carry it depending on the situation (like going to the city where this occurred?).

    Edit: just want to point out that I wouldn't have taken any action until the woman made contact first. But would have positioned myself accordingly.
    Remember, sticks and stones. I had an altercation several years ago with a clinically insane ex girlfriend of mine. As I was leaving a resultant she assaulted me. Basically cold cocked me square in the jaw when my head was turned, and then proceeded to continue hitting me. I was always told NEVER hit a woman, but I did shove her square on her ass. Women are hard to defend against because it's in (almost every) mans nature not to get physical. If it does I say you have the right to end the situation quickly an effectively without excessive force. I wouldn't let another woman try and fight my wife, especially if it's somewhere the other woman wasn't supposed to be.
    PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals

  4. #4
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    Default Re: When your only tool is a gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Shisno View Post

    I really wish I had some sort of OC spray for that situation. I think that would be the best way to handle a solitary threat that doesn't have any weapons. But at the same time it's not practical for me to carry spray everyday like my gun. Maybe carry it depending on the situation (like going to the city where this occurred?).
    .
    Why can't you carry pepper spray everyday, they make them pretty small? I do not carry pepper spray but it is something that I have been thinking about for a while.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: When your only tool is a gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lexington View Post
    Well, police officers have to deal with physical altercations from time to time without it coming to the use of weapons or even pepper spray. Your mere presence (Whether the firearm is showing or not) might be enough to deter the would-be combatants from going at it if you place yourself between them.

    If words fail and things get physical, in this particular situation you have size and likely strength to your advantage. You could probably just shove the woman back and make her lose her footing. I doubt you would have had to worry about her going for your gun. If she had, well, that's why people sometimes have to get their jaws wired shut. Retention plays a big part in this.

    I think the real worry here would be making sure your girlfriend doesn't step up the violence by joining in, or by continuing with verbal taunts. She seems a bit on the volatile side, and by not controlling her will end up looking like the aggressor rather than someone trying to deescalate the situation.

    While possessing a firearm makes me want to avoid a toe-to-toe clash as much as I can, it's not always possible. I guess the main thing is to size up each situation (And potential combatant) and make a choice as to what to do. Drawing a gun on an unarmed, roid-raging, heavily muscled refrigerator of a man will go over better with the police than drawing that same gun on a diminutive - if very loud and violent - woman.
    All very good advice. Thank you.

    Yes my girlfriend gets a temper sometimes (fiery redhead). And I would have tried to deescalate the situation first but I feat it would have gone out of my control. Also, I want to note that I am not very intimidating physically (probably even to a woman). I'm only 5'10 and 140 pounds. So I'm guessing my presence wouldn't have deterred her since she visibly had the weight advantage.

    About your point that many LEOs get into physical altercations without the need for any tools is true. But I'm not a LEO and would prefer to avoid hands on if I can.
    Practicing free speech outside of the designated free speech zones.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: When your only tool is a gun...

    Sorry to go off topic, but when I read the title of this thread (before reading the OP's actual post), the only thing I thought of was that first season MacGyver episode when he uses a revolver with the cylinder removed to shut the valve to save an overheating nuclear power plant.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: When your only tool is a gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by StonewallRabbitry View Post
    Why can't you carry pepper spray everyday, they make them pretty small? I do not carry pepper spray but it is something that I have been thinking about for a while.
    My pants already weigh 12 lbs with two guns and a reload along with everything else in my pocket. It would be viable to carry a small spray can near my reload but I'm slowly running out of room on my belt and have already switched from carry two extra mags to only carrying one. So I can do it, but it would be more hassle for EDC than what I think it would be worth. But right now I'm revisiting that conclusion.
    Practicing free speech outside of the designated free speech zones.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: When your only tool is a gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by zeroflat24 View Post
    Remember, sticks and stones. I had an altercation several years ago with a clinically insane ex girlfriend of mine. As I was leaving a resultant she assaulted me. Basically cold cocked me square in the jaw when my head was turned, and then proceeded to continue hitting me. I was always told NEVER hit a woman, but I did shove her square on her ass. Women are hard to defend against because it's in (almost every) mans nature not to get physical. If it does I say you have the right to end the situation quickly an effectively without excessive force. I wouldn't let another woman try and fight my wife, especially if it's somewhere the other woman wasn't supposed to be.
    You never took Martial Arts did you? In combat, all attackers are the same. There is no gender.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: When your only tool is a gun...

    I only read through the original post quickly, but it seemed hard for me to read and comprehend, so I may be off-base with my response.
    That said, here it comes:Why not just tell your girlfriend to STFU? It seems to me, that you stated she was the aggressor in the situation. Was this so? You said the other guy was deemed , by you, to not be a threat. The woman was making a valid complaint about your GF making too much noise, as I read it. I would have gotten the GF inside, or had her leave. Defuse the situation by removing the problem, not by deciding how much force you are going to use on a woman who just wants some peace and quiet.
    For the record, when the cops arrive they are going to figure out pretty quickly who the real problem is. Hint: it's usually the one with the biggest mouth.
    Secondary advice: I'd lose the Gf as quickly as possible. She's going to cause you more problems down the road.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: When your only tool is a gun...

    Quote Originally Posted by Manxdriver View Post
    I only read through the original post quickly, but it seemed hard for me to read and comprehend, so I may be off-base with my response.
    That said, here it comes:Why not just tell your girlfriend to STFU? It seems to me, that you stated she was the aggressor in the situation. Was this so? You said the other guy was deemed , by you, to not be a threat. The woman was making a valid complaint about your GF making too much noise, as I read it. I would have gotten the GF inside, or had her leave. Defuse the situation by removing the problem, not by deciding how much force you are going to use on a woman who just wants some peace and quiet.
    For the record, when the cops arrive they are going to figure out pretty quickly who the real problem is. Hint: it's usually the one with the biggest mouth.
    Secondary advice: I'd lose the Gf as quickly as possible. She's going to cause you more problems down the road.
    I did pull her aside shortly afterward and it ended the argument. But at the moment the damage had been done and I had to figure out how I was going to handle the cards dealt to me. But yes, she was in the wrong for making the noise, and if the cops were called for noise complaint she would have been in trouble. My concern was the woman taking action herself. In that case legally speaking they would both be the aggressor.

    On to the topic of me cutting my losses, no. Everyone has their faults and its not something I'm going to discuss in this thread.
    Practicing free speech outside of the designated free speech zones.

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