Thinking of calibers best suited for use on body armor?

[kimura]

hypocrite. i provided ample sources PROVING my claims. i even had the nij criteria, itself.

you were full of shit on EVERY point you attempted:

- you claimed that no civilian legal handguns, aside from the 5.7, could defeat IIIa. ooooops.
- constructive intent
- 5.56 and nij lvl III
- glock's weight
- that the MATERIALS used in plates is very relevant in terms of what it can stop (especially for 5.56)
- cost

you never owned up to it, either. you blamed wiki for YOUR bullshit on here. and then you have the audacity to 'yell at' someone for doing the SAME thing you did?

as for your s4 bullshit and etc... yeah, if you're going against someone with armor and have only a handgun - it's a good choice. but if the assailant isn't armored (which seems more likely, anyway), you're limited to seemingly mediocre ammo.

as for the 7.62x25... lolz. i guess you learned SOMETHING from the other (linked) thread.

and ignorance is now your answer? hahahahaha. i guess it's better than evading the living hell out of your own claims. oh, wait... no. it's the same thing.


and re: 10mm - while i still doubt it would penetrate nij IIIa, i haven't seen any testing of real (ie: full powered [underwood, swamp fox, etc]) 10mm rounds done.

[Valorius]

"kimura
This message is hidden because kimura is on your ignore list."

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Enjoy your weekend.

[kimura]

RUUUUUUUUUUUUUN AWAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!

i like how merely 3 months ago, val was telling people that the fiveseven is the only handgun that can defeat IIIa armor, that it's constructive intent to own both an ar15 rifle & pistol, that 5.56 can't defeat nij III, that the plate materials don't matter, that the fiveseven is cheaper than an ar15 pistol, that "a loaded FsN weighs as much as an empty Glock 17," and MORE misinformation...

and now takes evading his own claims to a new level.

val's full of shit. believe him if you want, but i'd do your own research.

http://forum.pafoa.org/pistols-41/16...ml#post1962801

[libra8]

In case you have doubts about the 5.7. 5.7 vs. trauma plate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qttxN...feature=relmfu

[kimura]

i hope you guys realize that a trauma plate offers no real protection.

they're not SAPI plates or ballistic plates or etc. they're not supposed to stop rounds (the kevlar/"vest" is). the plate's only supposed to minimize the impact's blunt trauma to the torso.

[LifeInPa]

The chances that you will need a gun at all are very low. We're all playing %'s here.

Given that you can get a IIIA vest for under $100 on ebay, and given that my tests show that even 20 year old plus soft body armor still retains a high level of effectiveness, i don't know why any armed homeowner or zombie apocalypse afficionado would not own a IIIA vest, or even numerous IIIA vests. You can drape one right over a window sill, and combined with the protection of the wall itself, you have a darn good fighting position in 2 seconds flat. Especially if you are wearing one as well.

It's a form of insurance for me, it's very unlikely I will ever need it but I rather have the protection and not need it than need it and not have it. I can justify most of the cost since I go to the range monthly and enjoy shooting. Some good tips on armor use btw Val.

[ErSwnn]

I see one round being forgotten. The lowly .22 Magnum. While I have never tested it (no, I'm not ruining perfectly good armor) I understand it'll penetrate. Others may dispute that and I have no issue with being schooled should this information be incorrect, I'm going with verbal knowledge that I cannot claim to be researched. But....I've heard it more than once.


Anyone with greater knowledge or reliable testing care to comment?

[Brick]

ER you might have a winning thought there!

Thinking back to a few years before Kevlar made the scene, there was a plastic material, LEXAN, IIRC. I recall seeing a "clipboard" that could double as a bulletproof shield that had been subjected to test shots from various caliber handguns. The smaller diameter bullets penetrated the most with .22 LR giving the greatest penetration, though not breaking through.

[kimura]

i know that .22 mag JHPs (44 gr, 1209 fps) shouldn't even penetrate IIa.

i don't see any solid specs/testing of 22 mag fmj, although i see a lot of IIIa armor manufacturers/sellers claiming it will defeat '.22 mag rounds.'

i'd guess that it's possible, given enough barrel length. but i don't know how likely, and i certainly wouldn't want to rely on it.

[Valorius]

I see one round being forgotten. The lowly .22 Magnum. While I have never tested it (no, I'm not ruining perfectly good armor) I understand it'll penetrate. Others may dispute that and I have no issue with being schooled should this information be incorrect, I'm going with verbal knowledge that I cannot claim to be researched. But....I've heard it more than once.


Anyone with greater knowledge or reliable testing care to comment?

If anyone in Philly with a .22 mag pistol wants to try it out, ill supply the lvl IIIA vest, we can shoot it at the range where my brother works.

I would be completely stunned if a .22 mag penetrates a IIIA. The velocity is far too low, IMO. A 5.7mm S4 round has literally double the velocity and somewhere around 3 to 4 times the energy. Even FN SS197SR 40gr Vmax, which is much, much hotter than any .22 mag round fired from a pistol, is just barely stopped by a 20 plus year old Lvl IIA panel with just 12 layers (with an index finger sized back face deformation). I seriously doubt a .22 mag will do even that well, as SS197SR hits about 1600+ fps from a Five Seven pistol. A 40gr .22 mag wont even hit that velocity when fired out of a full sized rifle, if my memory serves correctly. So from a pistol? Extremely unlikely.