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Thread: pre ban vs post ban AR-15?
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February 3rd, 2009, 10:31 AM #11
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February 3rd, 2009, 10:41 AM #12
Re: pre ban vs post ban AR-15?
So we can just engrave all parts with made in USA?
Drew Bingaman Chair Susquehanna Valley Libertarian Party
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February 3rd, 2009, 11:03 AM #13
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May 24th, 2010, 02:31 PM #14Junior Member
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Re: pre ban vs post ban AR-15?
OK...I am confused...I thought pre-ban meant full auto... I thought the whole deal was that anyone can still own a full auto AR15 as long as it was made "pre-ban."
Others have said:...I conceal carry because you don't, I fight for all my rights because
you won't, I will not sit with my thumb up my bum and complain, because you will.
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May 24th, 2010, 08:36 PM #15
Re: pre ban vs post ban AR-15?
Pre-ban is a term more appropriately used during '94-'04 referring that it was made before 1994 (when the original "Assault Weapon Ban" passed) and had all the "evil" features like a flash hider, bayonet lug, collapsible stock, etc... and was grandfathered in, therefore legal to own.
It applies to semi-autos since full-autos have long been heavy regulated since the 1934 National Firearms Act. Civilians cannot own full-autos that were made/registered in the NFA logs after May 19th, 1986, when the Firearm Owners Protection Act went into effect.
Pretty sure I got that right, waiting for someone else to chime in.
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May 27th, 2010, 09:54 AM #16Junior Member
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Re: pre ban vs post ban AR-15?
OK. So as a civilian, private citizen, how can I own full-auto weapons? and what kind can I own? Someone told me that I have to have a class III license and/or FFL? BTW, I am a resident of PA.
Others have said:...I conceal carry because you don't, I fight for all my rights because
you won't, I will not sit with my thumb up my bum and complain, because you will.
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May 27th, 2010, 10:07 AM #17
Re: pre ban vs post ban AR-15?
Long story short...
1.) All full-auto guns that are available to the public sector, need to be registered as an NFA item before 1986, when the MG Ban was enacted.
2.) Depending on what you want, you will need a good amount of money to afford an NFA MG. I believe M16's were going for around $12,000-$18,000 last I saw. Uzi's can be had for a couple grand IIRC.
3.) When you buy one, you must pay the NFA tax of $200 to transfer the item into your name.
EDIT: From the NFA section of the site.
http://forum.pafoa.org/nfa-class-3-t...ppressors.html
Transferable Firearms:
NFA firearms that can be transferred to private citizens on an ATF Form 4 are the most desirable, and therefore most expensive ones to acquire. They are often referred to as "fully transferable". Nearly all NFA suppressors, short barrel rifles, short barrel shotguns, and AOWs are transferable. The number of registered machine guns that are transferable was frozen in 1986. Included in this category are the following machine guns:
Original or converted machine guns, whether foreign or domestic, if added to the Federal Registry prior to enactment of the GCA 68.
Deactivated war trophies (DEWAT) that were registered prior to enactment of the GCA 68. DEWATs can be reactivated after payment of the $200 Federal Transfer Tax and approval by BATF.
Domestically manufactured or remanufactured guns that were registered after the GCA 68 enactment, but prior to the GOPA 86 (May 19th, 1986). This includes registered receivers, sears, bolts, or other parts accepted by BATF.
Imported guns that were remanufactured into machine guns prior to the GOPA (May 19, 1986). This includes registered receivers, sears, bolts, or other parts accepted by BATF.
Curios and Relics:
Some states allow private ownership of machine guns only if they are listed as Curios & Relics by the Federal Government. Examples would include original Thompson 1921 or 1928 submachine guns, and early production M-16 rifles. The Curios & Relics list is periodically updated and you can petition for particular guns to be added. Normally a gun is accepted to the list if the Federal Government determines it is of some historic value or of such an age or rarity that it is unlikely to see criminal use. Collectors who possess a Curios & Relics license (FFL) can purchase these guns out-of-state, with prior payment of the applicable transfer tax and approval by BATF.
Pre-May Dealer Sample:
Machine guns imported after 1968 and prior to May 19, 1986, are transferable to FFL dealers (01) and manufacturers (07) who have paid the Special Occupational Tax (SOT) for the current year. A dealer who acquires a pre-May dealer sample and then fails to pay the SOT in succeeding years may retain the gun in his private collection. It only can be transferred to someone holding a SOT or to an approved government agency, usually military or law enforcement. An exception is made sometimes if the gun is being inherited from the dealer's estate by a family member.
Post-May Dealer Sample:
Any machine gun manufactured or imported after May 19, 1986, can be transferred between SOT payers only if they first provide a letter on agency letterhead showing that a legitimate government organization has requested to see it. This usually means a law enforcement agency or military unit. The gun can be retained by the dealer/manufacturer only so long as he pays his annual SOT. If he drops the SOT, BATFE expects him to first dispose of, surrender, or destroy the gun. It can be transferred only to another SOT payer or approved government agency, as previously described.
Privately Building NFA Firearms:
Provided there are no state or local restrictions, you can build your own NFA firearm if you receive prior approval from BATFE on a tax paid Form 1. Along with the Form 1, you must include fingerprint cards, law enforcement endorsement, and a drawing of the firearm. Machine guns will not be approved. Only suppressors, short barrel shotguns, short barrel rifles, destructive devices and AOWs will be approved. In all cases, the tax will be $200 per firearm to make. Once approved, they will be treated as any other fully transferable NFA firearm.Last edited by NikeBauer21; May 27th, 2010 at 10:11 AM.
III%
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May 28th, 2010, 09:05 AM #18Junior Member
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Re: pre ban vs post ban AR-15?
Thanks! This stinks... GOVERNMENT! Everything it touches turns to ...
Others have said:...I conceal carry because you don't, I fight for all my rights because
you won't, I will not sit with my thumb up my bum and complain, because you will.
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May 28th, 2010, 11:43 PM #19
Re: pre ban vs post ban AR-15?
It was entirely possible pre-86 to purchase an AR-15 that, although a semi, could easily be converted to full auto, either by some minimal machining. or the replacement or modification of some small parts; well under an hour's work.
The notorious Wilkes-Barre mass murderer George Banks took advantage of one of these weapons (and in fact, was at least partially to blame for the new rule); yet another recent occurrence has a former army sergeant locked up in a federal pen because the stop that was machined into his selector switch had worn over the years, and the weapon could be forced into full-auto by forcibly moving the selector past semi to full. Someone he let fire the weapon did just that, and this poor bastard was charged with...and found guilty of...manufacturing a post-86 MG, due to nothing more than worn aluminum."...a REPUBLIC, if you can keep it."
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May 29th, 2010, 08:50 AM #20
Re: pre ban vs post ban AR-15?
I'm not completely sure what your point is? Even pre 86, you needed to fill out an ATF form 1 to make a semi into a full auto. Full auto, as posted above, has been regulated by the ATF since 1934. So, you couldn't just make one full auto without the proper paperwork (pre 1986).
It is still possible to buy a semi TODAY that only requires minimal machining and parts replacement. It is just as illegal TODAY as it was post 1934 without doing the proper paper work. The difference now (post 1986) is that a regular Joe can not form 1 a machine gun (convert semi to full). To get a machine gun today it had to be registered with the ATF before May of 1986.
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