forced to disarm at Lehigh Valley Driver License Center

[General Geoff]

I took my friend Rey to the licensing center to apply for his driver's permit. We brought all the necessary credentials, I was not carrying as I had planned on going directly to work in NJ after dropping him off at home, but Rey was carrying his BHP openly in a serpa holster. After being seated and waiting maybe 15 minutes, he was called to the desk and they started processing him. About 3 minutes later, a security guard came over to him and told him he had to disarm and place his gun in the car. I came up and asked by what authority, she just said "that's the way things are, guns aren't allowed here." I asked if she worked for PennDOT, she said she does, and I attempted to explain about state preemption, etc.. but she was having none of it. After a few more minutes the manager on duty came out and after confirming that he in fact worked for PennDOT, I asked for his business card. At this point the security guard threatened to call the State Police and have us removed (I was sorely tempted to call them myself), but just in case I'm missing some vital information here, I decided discretion is the better part of valour and told Rey to stow his gun in the car, with the promise that I'd get to the bottom of this for next time (he does still have to take the license test...).


So anyway, here is the manager's info:

Dave Kissam
Supervisor
Bureau of Driver Licensing
Lehigh Valley Driver License Center
1710 Hoover Avenue
Allentown, PA 18109
Phone 610-264-3242
Fax 610-264-3683

Whom should I be contacting for confirmation on the legality/legitimacy of this "policy" of theirs banning guns in this state-run facility?


As an aside, the security guard REFUSED to give me her name and said her manager's name is all I needed.

[ViperGTS19801]

PennDOT licensing centers are buildings owned and operated by the state, to the best of my knowledge - someone wiser than myself will surely provide the correct information, but when I re-upped my driver's license, I OCed and no one said a word to me about it. There also wasn't a douchebag security guard who refused to identify themselves...I would have told them I don't respect their authority if they refuse to give me their name, if it were me.

However, whether or not the policy is legitimate, if you're asked to leave, you have to, otherwise it's still trespassing, even if they don't actually have a policy. It's the kind of thing you have to do as you're told now and figure out who was wrong later.

[SnowKitty]

PennDOT licensing centers are buildings owned and operated by the state, to the best of my knowledge - someone wiser than myself will surely provide the correct information, but when I re-upped my driver's license, I OCed and no one said a word to me about it. There also wasn't a douchebag security guard who refused to identify themselves...I would have told them I don't respect their authority if they refuse to give me their name, if it were me.

However, whether or not the policy is legitimate, if you're asked to leave, you have to, otherwise it's still trespassing, even if they don't actually have a policy. It's the kind of thing you have to do as you're told now and figure out who was wrong later.

we weren't asked to leave, they just told me i had to go put the gun in the car. also, there weren't any signs posted saying that weapons were prohibited at the entrance and nobody said anything about it till the rent-a-cop confronted me about it.

[ViperGTS19801]

Well, I left a message with the manager at the number you listed above. I'll try to amicably ask a few questions to see where this all came from.

[ChrisF4i]

Was the security guard a little Hispanic woman with bad blonde dyed hair? She's a real beeotch!

[SnowKitty]

Was the security guard a little Hispanic woman with bad blonde dyed hair? She's a real beeotch!

yep, that's her.

[4070BN]

I would think it is legal, INAL.

Here's a previous thread http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/12524-dmv.html

[General Geoff]

I just wrote this draft letter to PennDOT in Harrisburg:

This morning on Thursday, July 19th, 2012, I was accompanying an acquaintance of mine, named Rey Diaz, to apply for his driver permit at the PennDOT center at 1710 Hoover Avenue, Allentown, Pennsylvania. After taking a number and being seated, he was eventually called to the desk and they started to process his application.

About 3 minutes later, an unnamed security guard came over to him and told him he had to disarm and place his gun in the car. I came up and asked by what authority, she just said "that's the way things are, guns aren't allowed here." I asked if she worked for PennDOT, she said she does, and I attempted to explain about state preemption (18 Pa.C.S. § 6109 m.3), but she disregarded it. After a few more minutes the supervisor on duty came out and after confirming that he in fact worked for PennDOT, I asked for his business card. The supervisor I spoke with is Dave Kissam, phone 610-264-3242.

From what I understand about Pennsylvania state preemption of firearm laws (again, 18 Pa.C.S. § 6109), PennDOT, being a state agency, is not allowed to bar the legal carry of firearms in their establishments. I would like to make it clear to Mr. Kissam and those under him (the security guard refused to give me her name) that the law must be followed in their establishment, and that their personal beliefs or prejudices will not influence their policy.

Please call me to confirm you've received this message and that the problem will be corrected so that such incidents do not happen in the future. I can be reached any time on my mobile number, which is xxx-xxx-xxxx. Thank you.

[General Geoff]

damn double post

[30Glock]

subscribed.......