forced to disarm at Lehigh Valley Driver License Center

[General Geoff]

The General's posts and my response was with respect to a state agency preemption or lack of it. IMO PennDOT may not be preempted.

As the State Government (and agencies under it) operates on laws stating what it can do, not what it cannot do, I would argue that unless there is a law specifically granting PennDOT the ability to regulate firearms within their facilities, they otherwise cannot.

[tl_3237]

As the State Government (and agencies under it) operates on laws stating what it can do, not what it cannot do, I would argue that unless there is a law specifically granting PennDOT the ability to regulate firearms within their facilities, they otherwise cannot.

It's usually an outgrowth of their enabling legislation - something like them given a duty to establish, run, and maintain order in the facillities with which they perform to their assigned duties.

Can you cite any statute specifically granting - the Casino Commission the authority to impose firearm prohibition on licensees (which they do)? DCNR from prohibiting OC (which they do and banned CC prior to 2008)?

[General Geoff]

Regarding the Casino Commission:
§ 465.14. Firearms; Possession With In A Licensed Facility. (Casinos)
(d) Each slot machine licensee shall cause to be posted in a conspicuous location at each entrance to the licensed facility signs that may be easily read stating: The possession by any person of any firearm or handgun within this licensed facility without the express written permission of the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board is prohibited.

The DCNR's prohibition on OC is still untested in court.

[General Geoff]

double post again, this is getting annoying

[tl_3237]

Regarding the Casino Commission:
§ 465.14. Firearms; Possession With In A Licensed Facility. (Casinos)
(d) Each slot machine licensee shall cause to be posted in a conspicuous location at each entrance to the licensed facility signs that may be easily read stating: The possession by any person of any firearm or handgun within this licensed facility without the express written permission of the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board is prohibited.

The DCNR's prohibition on OC is still untested in court.

So what statute authorized the casino commission to establish that regulation was the thrust of my original question

The DCNR regulatory prohibition is the law of the land and has been around for many years. What's your point about the lack of judicial challenge and how does that support your assertion that an agency must be able to cite specific statutory authority regarding firearm regulation? Are you presumptively assuming that it and all other state agency firearm prohibition would be summarily declared invalid due to lack of authority unless explicitly authorized?

[Exbiker]

The General's posts and my response was with respect to a state agency preemption or lack of it. IMO PennDOT may not be preempted.

The issue you raise is of a different ilk. In general, authority to create conditions of entry by a private party lessee is usually well established (subject to lease terms). When that lessee is performing a state function it's not as clear that they don't inherit some or all of the restrictions of the Government sponsor.

If the office is run by a private entity but uses some Pa employees wouldn't the private entity make the rules.
There was once a Pendot photo center in a mall but the mall doesn't allow handguns. Who prevails?

Don't forget preemption just disallows lower levels of government from making their own rules. In this case it would mean counties, cities and townships.

[General Geoff]

Seeing as how part of Section 6109 specifically mentions the DCNR regulation, I don't think that's much of a presumption.


(m.2) Inconsistent provisions.--Notwithstanding the provisions of section 7506 (relating to violation of rules regarding conduct on Commonwealth property), 75 Pa.C.S. § 7727 (relating to additional limitations on operation) or the act of June 28, 1995 (P.L.89, No.18), known as the Conservation and Natural Resources Act, and regulations promulgated under that act, a firearm may be carried as provided in subsection (a) by:

(1) a law enforcement officer whose current identification as a law enforcement officer shall be construed as a valid license to carry a firearm; or

(2) any licensee.

[General Geoff]

nother double post

[General Geoff]

If the office is run by a private entity but uses some Pa employees wouldn't the private entity make the rules.
There was once a Pendot photo center in a mall but the mall doesn't allow handguns. Who prevails?

Let's look at it from a non-gun perspective. Let's say that mall prohibited minors from entering, for whatever reason. Any PennDOT center located in the mall would still have an obligation to service minors (accompanied by their parents/guardians/whomever). I would once again question the legitimacy of PennDOT leasing an area which has prohibitions against exercising state-guaranteed rights.

[Greywolf]

The General's posts and my response was with respect to a state agency preemption or lack of it. IMO PennDOT may not be preempted.

See the second quote in post #19.