Another agency bans the SERPA

[DennisH82]

What is a "quick draw"?

Are you suggesting slower is better when one needs a pistol? Enlighten me with your gunfighting experience for I have none. All I have surmised is that if by chance I need to use a pistol in self defense I will need it sooner than later.

What I am suggesting is that one, not shoot oneself in the leg and blame the holster. As for Gun fighting I think that went out in the old wild west. Training is great but situational awareness is key. But what the heck I don't practice quick draw drills in the mirror for that one and a million gunfight at the new OK Corral.

I am guessing that Yogi and BooBoo are challenging those darn park rangers and they need to be faster on the draw. Any comment on the NEGLIGENT Discharges?

[orionz06]

What I am suggesting is that one, not shoot oneself in the leg and blame the holster. As for Gun fighting I thing that went out in the old wild west. Training is great but situational awareness is key. But what the heck I don't practice quick draw drills in the mirror for that one and a million gunfight at the new OK Corral.

But the holster is to blame. The sole method to operate it *may* place the finger near the trigger. The act of depressing the lever *may* encourage sympathetic motion, combined with gripping the gun, and cause a curl. Said curl *may* contact the trigger. Said trigger contact *may* fire the gun prematurely.

How many times do you want *may* to be mentioned when talking about getting shot?

The SERPA is the *only* holster with this track record. Coincidence?

The only thing it has going for it is cost. It is dirt cheap for dirt quality.

I am guessing that Yogi and BooBoo are challenging those darn park rangers and they need to be faster on the draw. Any comment on the NEGLIGENT Discharges?

Are you suggesting they have no need to rapidly draw a weapon? If so why not just keep them in the truck? It will be easier than carrying a heavy gun around all day, right?

[Justin///M]

So out of curiosity..., when an "agency" bans the SERPA due to safety concerns, is it a reaction to a number of their agents shooting themselves?

Ignoring the jamming possibility issue, what is the evidence being used to show that this is a "shoot yourself" concern?

Thanks!

Justin

[DennisH82]

And here I thought keeping your finger off of the trigger alone would keep you from putting a bullet in your leg. Maybe if you could teach people to keep their booger hook off the bang switch instead of drawing just far enough and then jamming their finger in the trigger guard, things like this wouldn’t happen.

If someone cannot comprehend to push a button and then pull the gun, then they shouldn’t be around a weapon. I’ve tried to get my finger on the trigger using my 1911 in a Serpa and I just can’t do it.
Again:
1. Push button.
2. Remove firearm from holster.
3. Gain sight picture.
4. Release safety.
5. Squeeze trigger.

Step 6 is putting a bullet in your leg, but only if your IQ is below 12…

^^^^^ This Maybe some of these highly trained agencies like meter maids should Mexican carry.

[Connal]

I will admit, I use the serpa. And I think the largest academy blah blah real world blah blah makes no sense.

Blaming equipment is a crutch. It is one thing if a wheel falls off your car and you drive into a tree. And I can understand that having your trigger finger in that area could contribute to a nd. But I don't know where else to put my finger.

It has been my experience, that those who have problems with equipment shouldn't be using it. But to ban the use of an item because people don't know how to do it? Seems silly.

[rmagill]

Many agencies that ban use of said holster are considered to employ the most highly trained individuals out there and yet they still ban it. Is that an indictment on the quality of their own training?

From what I read of the FLETC incident I would say it is more of a policy issue. In that well-known incident, the shooter changed holsters and did not practice with it prior to the qualification. It is unreasonable for anyone with a different holster to expect to competently and quickly draw from it the first time - regardless of what type of retention holster it is.

We allow the SERPA to be carried on our department. However, before an officer can use the SERPA, s/he must demonstrate to the head firearms instructor his/her ability to safely and quickly draw from the holster. I honestly believe that if such a policy existed at FLETC, the likelihood of that incident happening would have been negligible.

It seems like the common theme in these threads is that because some people mess up with this holster everyone will eventually. I honestly don't see much difference between that argument and the anti's argument (which we can so quickly refute) that because some people abuse firearms no one should be able to use them. The onus of responsibility for safe gun usage remains with the user and not some piece of equipment.

[orionz06]

Anyone care to address why the poor trigger finger discipline is not exhibited with other holsters of equivalent retention ratings?

[rmagill]

Anyone care to address why the poor trigger finger discipline is not exhibited with other holsters of equivalent retention ratings?

Probably because in these cases a spade is called a spade instead of a rake. It is much harder for the person that just [I]shot themself/I] to blame the holster with other designs. However, I still maintain that the onus of responsibility for safe gun handling remains on the shooter. To blame a piece of equipment for one's own negligence is no only inaccurate, but also irresponsible.

[DennisH82]

But the holster is to blame. The sole method to operate it *may* place the finger near the trigger. The act of depressing the lever *may* encourage sympathetic motion, combined with gripping the gun, and cause a curl. Said curl *may* contact the trigger. Said trigger contact *may* fire the gun prematurely.

How many times do you want *may* to be mentioned when talking about getting shot?

The SERPA is the *only* holster with this track record. Coincidence?

The only thing it has going for it is cost. It is dirt cheap for dirt quality.



Are you suggesting they have no need to rapidly draw a weapon? If so why not just keep them in the truck? It will be easier than carrying a heavy gun around all day, right?

Ok I will say it agian, If you place your finger on the trigger before sighting your target then there is a good chance you will shoot your leg, foot your buddy, the kid accross the street. You cuased the weapon to fire not the holster, if you don't getthat then sorry I can't get through to you. I am not a shill for SERPA but I am a shill for common sence. I get it you don't like the SERPA, check. I have had one for ten years the other for five years I haven't had a negilgent disharge. But then again I don't play with, fidget with or practice re-holster drills with a loaded weapon. Darwin has a system to deal with folks who do that.

I am no going to be drawn into your WHY this or WHY that, hell go out and buy a SERPA and burn it on the six O'clock news for all I care. I know a number of LEO's and some of them should not be allowed to carry a rubber pencil let alone a Tazzer, Sidearm or mace. If you are situational aware then you have time to draw your weapon without rushing and actually hit the intended target. Speed is nice but safly drwaing and hitting your target is nicer.

[orionz06]

Would common sense not dictate choosing a holster without a design that encourages one to place their finger on the trigger, despite the instructions in the package and what they were taught?


Also, this thread is about the concerns of the park service and the SERPA jamming. The design flaw that causes the user to violate one of the 4 rules of safe gun handling might deserve another thread.