Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Question Words of Caution (LTCF Letter) Questions

    I received my LTCF in the mail today. With it came a letter from the Office of the Sheriff (County of Chester).

    The letter states I applied for and was granted a license to carry a concealed firearm as provided in the PA Uniform Firearm Act Section 6109.

    It also sates that carrying a concealed firearm is a privilege and not a right and that the issuing authority can revoke this privilege should I abuse the laws of the Commonwealth of PA.

    The letter also listed 9 "words of caution" (more like short paragraphs) most of which I agree with. But two have me wondering and a little freaked out:

    2. Do not create a situation, which could result in the revocation of your permit, such as overt and unnecessary display of your firearm. This could cause an adverse reaction by your fellow citizens.
    Since "overt" means "open to view" does that mean if I Open Carry that would automatically get my license revoked?? Even though it doesn't say "open" or "concelaed" specifically on my license? And what if a fellow citizen has an adverse reaction to me carrying at all? Their reaction can get my license revoked? Sounds like the "feelings" of the citizens trumps my right to carry in this case. WTF?

    7. Alcohol beverages, certain medications and controlled substances should not be taken when carrying your firearm. When carrying your firearm avoid locations where alcoholic beverages are being served.
    The first part is common sense, but I thought you could go to a bar, or even a restaurant or pizza joint that serves alcohol?? According to this paragraph I can't. Nevermind that I've always chosen to not drink when carrying, but this letter goes one step further by limiting me to just being in a place that serves alcohol.


    Anyone else here get their LTCF from Chester County? Did yours say the same stuff?

    Am I freaking out for nothing, or misreading the letter, or does this letter limit me to CC only and needing to know ahead of time if any place serves alcohol before entering?

    Maybe I need to call the Sheriff and ask them these questions directly?

    Any input would be appreciated here! Thank you.
    Last edited by dave_in_delaware; July 7th, 2012 at 12:14 AM.
    Dave (Co-Founder & Moderator: Delaware Open Carry)

  2. #2
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    Windsor Twsp., Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Words of Caution (LTCF Letter) Questions

    I'll be brief... none of that is backed up by law.

    Edit: I'll add that OC is not an "overt and unnecessary display".
    .
    While many claim to support the right, precious few support the practice.

  3. #3
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    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: Words of Caution (LTCF Letter) Questions

    Put it in the shredder....

    Open Carry is legal in PA (Phila with LTCF)
    The mere act of OC can't get your license revoked

    Yes, it is legal to carry in a bar and even drink while carrying (use judgement)

    Private businesses (whether a bar or a guitar store) have the right to refuse entry for almost any reason (including people carrying firearms).

    Vote with your $$$

    That letter is full of OPINION and not FACT

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Words of Caution (LTCF Letter) Questions

    The purpose of an LTCF is primarily to allow you to carry concealed or in a vehicle, without violating the statute which prohibits carrying concealed or in a vehicle without a license. It's that simple.

    It also allows you to carry ANY gun openly or concealed on the streets of Philly, which would otherwise be in violation of state law.

    There are other uses, too. But it's far more than a "concealed carry license".

    As for "brandishing", that word doesn't appear in our Crimes Code. But depending on the intent and context, there are certainly displays that are unlawful. Standing in the middle of a shopping mall and chambering a round in your 1911 while glaring at shoppers, would arguably constitute "disorderly conduct". Simply pulling your coat back to show that you're armed is a non-verbal message, and you don't want to send that message in the middle of a dispute about your kid's grades with the teacher, or while yelling at a driver who just cut you off. You can't tell someone "I get my way or else you will die."

    It's a little complicated, and often a judgment call, because you could send that same non-verbal message to a pack of thugs surrounding you and your wife in a parking lot. Same message, "I'm armed", but the context would carry with it the allowable, conditional "if you unlawfully attack us I will defend with deadly force".
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Words of Caution (LTCF Letter) Questions

    As usual, GunLawyer makes some very good, accurate points.

    Put it in the shredder....
    +1. As you read these forums, you will discover that a lot of Sheriffs/Chiefs like to make up nonsense and hold it out as the law. They will either "require" things on the LTCF application that they shouldn't, or they will send out these letters with suggestions or "laws/ordinances" that have no legal standing.

    Frankly, to me it sounds like that letter wasn't worth the paper to print it on. If you want to know the laws pertaining to your LTCF, pafoa has some good info here:
    http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...carry-you.html and here:
    http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...nsylvania.html

    or ask us.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Words of Caution (LTCF Letter) Questions

    Wow, this is the first time I've heard about a sheriff doing something like this. I hope the sheriff and deputy's as well as local PD now it's BS. If they try to enforce these to someone who doesn't know any better they could take advantage of them, actually, it's probably already happened a dozen times.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Words of Caution (LTCF Letter) Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by rimfryer View Post
    Wow, this is the first time I've heard about a sheriff doing something like this. I hope the sheriff and deputy's as well as local PD now it's BS. If they try to enforce these to someone who doesn't know any better they could take advantage of them, actually, it's probably already happened a dozen times.
    Well, if the Philly PD is any indication, this happens a lot more than it should. Some of it happens without higher-ups knowing. There was a post I read on here a while ago about a Corporal passing bad info. When the pafoa member complained, it was explained that the Corporal was out of line and did not give an accurate representation of the law, but rather his own opinion.

    On the other hand, members of PAFOA have successfully sued police departments because they violated the UFA and should have known better. Unfortunately, we don't really know how many times things like this happens to someone who doesn't know their rights because that person will not speak up because s/he would not suspect anything illegal happened.

    All of this should motivate us to know the laws, where they are located, and how they are applied - as well as the phone number for a good lawyer - so we know what our rights are and when they are being violated (granted, what we choose to do with that knowledge is up to us).

    Practically, being a well-educated gun owner ultimately makes us more responsible and a positive asset to our communities. By knowing what the laws are, we can educate others while having the ability to keep ourselves and those around us safe should the need arise (even if some piece of paper somewhere falsely told us we couldn't).

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Words of Caution (LTCF Letter) Questions

    This letter is nothing new, I have received the same letter from the Chester County Sheriff's office for as long as I can remember. I was going to go in and ask about it but then I remembered that the last person you want to get legal advice from is LE.

    Do your own research (plenty of resources here on PAFOA), shred the letter. keep the LTCF.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Words of Caution (LTCF Letter) Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by rimfryer View Post
    Wow, this is the first time I've heard about a sheriff doing something like this. I hope the sheriff and deputy's as well as local PD now it's BS. If they try to enforce these to someone who doesn't know any better they could take advantage of them, actually, it's probably already happened a dozen times.
    Really it's been going on for quite some time. In DELCO the sheriff sent via the US Mail a gun safety pamphlet, three years in a row. I wrote numerous times about the wrong info and each year it got a tiny bit better but still full of fail. 2010 was the last time I received one.

    http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...d-edition.html

    .

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Words of Caution (LTCF Letter) Questions

    You should send a letter back letting them know that being a Sheriff is a privilege not a right and if they violate any laws THEY will be held accountable.

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