Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Online firearm purchase.

    deleted.....
    Last edited by EricB.; September 20th, 2012 at 06:04 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Online firearm purchase.

    It is your responsibility to pay the sales tax to the state you reside in, not the FFL's.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Online firearm purchase.

    I buy from Bud's occasionally and ship to my local FFL...no sales tax...only transfer fees.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Online firearm purchase.

    deleted....
    Last edited by EricB.; September 20th, 2012 at 06:04 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Online firearm purchase.

    Quote Originally Posted by EricB. View Post
    Ok, I got two completely different answers. The online seller is not in my state but I'll be having it shipped to my FFL. One of you is saying I'll have to pay sales tax and the other is saying no sales tax just transfer fees. Either way the firearm will still be cheaper that way, but having never purchased online, I don't want to be in for any unexpected fees. I'd have asked the gun shop guys but I see them all the time and know them, I don't want them thinking I'm a complete idiot, you guys on here I don't mind if you think that, chances are I'll never run into any of you....lol....and I say that with no disrespect at all.

    Thank you both for the replies and info, rest assured, it is very much appreciated!

    Eric
    I think the confusion comes from the concept that reporting and paying the sales tax is your duty. As I understand it, if you order something from another state you are suppose to pay the tax yourself. (I guess send the money in.) The number of people that actually do this of their own volition is probably somewhere south of zero.

    I could also be wrong in my understanding of this.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Online firearm purchase.

    If the on line gun dealer does not collect PA sales tax, you are obligated to pay what is called the PA Use Tax. This tax is the same as the sales tax that you would pay where you live (for most of PA it is 6%, Phil and Allegheny Co. have an extra, local sales tax also). The FFL that does your transfer is not allowed to collect any sales tax from an interstate transfer, do not allow them to tell you otherwise.

    Here is a posting I did a while ago that should explain it:

    PA Sales Tax:
    1. If I, as a FFL, sell you something that my business purchased to be resold, I MUST charge you the appropriate sales tax. The sales tax is levied on the retail selling price which would include the shipping and handling charges and my profit margin.

    2. If I, as a gunsmith, repair your gun, I MUST charge you the appropriate sales tax on the labor charge and parts to fix the gun, unless you provide me with the repair parts (then the sales tax is only on the labor involved).

    PA Use Tax:
    1. If I, as a business person buy something for use in my business (tools, bluing solution, computer, repair books, etc.) from a place that does not collect the PA sales tax (out of state, internet, etc.) I am obligated to pay PA a tax equal to the sales tax where I live (in my case 6%). This is the PA Use Tax. It was put in place to help businesses in PA compete with out of state and internet businesses (not my statement but from the PA Dept of Revenue).

    2. If YOU, as a consumer, buy something from the internet (or a catalog) and the seller does not collect PA Sales Tax, YOU, the consumer, are obligated to pay the PA Dept of Revenue a tax equal to the sales tax where you live. This is the PA Use Tax. You can get full details on the Dept of Revenue web site.

    3. If YOU, as a consumer, order something from the internet or a catalog that must come to me, a FFL, to be transferred (think PaFOA AR lower, a gun from Bud's Gun Shop, a gun from AIM Surplus, etc.) and the seller does not collect PA Sales Tax on the item, YOU, the consumer are obligated to pay the PA Use Tax. As the person doing the transfer, I AM NOT REQUIRED OR OBLIGATED OR ALLOWED TO COLLECT THE PA USE TAX FROM ANYONE. I am not even required or obligated to inform you about the Use Tax (I normally do though, nice guy that I am ). It is up to you and you alone to decide if you are going to pay it or not.

    4. Personal sales (person to person not business to person) are non taxable (sales or use taxes). Intrastate personal sales are also non taxable.

    All that said however, when I do a PICS there is another form (SP4-134) that goes to the PSP along with any SP4-113 Application/Record of Sale (handguns only) forms. On it, I have to tell the PSP how many long arms and handguns I transferred, how many were non sales taxable and how many were sales taxable. There are reference numbers (the PICS approval number) on this form. I do not know if there would be a way the Dept of Revenue could get hold of and use the SP4-113 or the SP4-134 to see if people paid any Use Tax due. I also do not know if they could ask for my records to see if someone bought a gun and did not pay any Use Tax due (well, they could subpoena them I guess).

    I hope that this explains the difference in sales and use tax and who is and isn't obligated to do what.
    Last edited by Xringshooter; June 7th, 2012 at 01:56 PM.
    Ron USAF Ret E-8 FFL01/SOT3 NRA Benefactor Member

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Online firearm purchase.

    deleted....
    Last edited by EricB.; September 20th, 2012 at 06:05 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Online firearm purchase.

    Line 25 of the Pennsylvania Personal Income Tax form is "Use Tax." The instructions for that line:
    Use tax is the counterpart of sales tax and applies to taxable
    purchases made over the Internet, through toll-free numbers,
    from mail order catalogs and from out-of-state locations, or any
    other occasion where sales tax was not charged and collected
    by the seller. The use tax rate is the same as the sales tax
    rate: 6 percent state tax, plus an additional 1 percent local
    tax for items purchased or used in Allegheny County and
    2 percent local tax for Philadelphia.
    If you purchase items or services subject to sales tax for
    which the seller does not charge and collect sales tax on the
    invoice or receipt, you are personally responsible for remitting
    the use tax directly to the PA Department of Revenue.
    Examples of taxable items include the following: antiques,
    paintings, appliances, books, stationery, computers, exercise
    equipment, sports equipment, formal clothing, furniture,
    furnishings, jewelry, luggage, handbags, musical instruments,
    office equipment, souvenirs, televisions, radios, stereo
    equipment, video equipment and camera equipment.
    Examples of taxable services include lawn care, pest control,
    self-storage, building cleaning and maintenance services
    such as housekeeping services. See the Retailer’s Information
    Guide (REV-717) for an extensive, though not comprehensive,
    list of taxable items and services.
    This method of reporting and paying use tax may not be used
    for purchases of motor vehicles, watercraft, boats, ATVs,
    snowmobiles or cigarettes.
    If you have receipts or purchase records for items or services
    subject to use tax, use the worksheet below to calculate your
    use tax liability. Taxpayers are encouraged to review purchase
    histories made available online by popular Internet sellers
    and use that information to calculate the tax due.
    Note that this worksheet must be used to calculate use tax
    due on individual purchases over $1,000.
    If you paid some sales tax on items – for example, sales tax
    at a lower rate paid to another state or sales tax paid to
    Pennsylvania but not Philadelphia – you may offset your use
    tax liability by the sales tax already paid using this worksheet.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Online firearm purchase.

    Quote Originally Posted by EricB. View Post

    "South of zero" would be my guess as to how many people pay taxes on their online purchases.
    You could not have completed your PA state income tax form for 2011 if you did not answer line 25. If you wrote zero and purchased anything online or in another state and brought it back here you committed tax fraud.
    Hoplophobia is funny

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Online firearm purchase.

    deleted.....
    Last edited by EricB.; September 20th, 2012 at 06:05 PM.

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