Found a good one!!

[red_oktober78765]

I was at New Stanton Park today in Westmoreland Co. I decided to look around the park for any "park rules". This is a New Stanton Borough owned park (town owned). Naturally, I went up to the only entrance and there wasn't any signs posted...No bulliton board, just a billboard with the parks name on it. The "park rules" were posted smack dab in the center of the 20+ acre park on a paper that used similar size font as a typewriter would. In order to find out what the rules are, you have to essentially violate them (i.e. - bring beer on the property in your vehicle, or just having a firearm under the seat of your vehicle is, I guess, a violation) in order to find out what the rules are....To make matters worse, the mayor of New Stanton showed up with his family...I thought whats next? The F.B.I. goona take a stroll and the C.I.A. behind them after that, the Kremlin? WTH? Lets see if I can post some pics. How much legal weight would this posted sign have on CC with a LTCF?

New Stanton Park #2.jpg

New Stanton Park #3.jpg

[rxer311]

Like you said, how would you know what the rules are?

[red_oktober78765]

There is plenty of room at the entrance for the park rules....I just thought, damn, they get you coming and going.....

[HiredGoon]

As I understand it, New Stanton Borough (or any municipality) can regulate the discharge of firearms but not the carrying (OC or CC) of them. That would be a pre-emption violation, I believe. IANAL

[renegadephoenix]

the rules banning firearms carry no weight

[jerryg]

Make them fix it.

[red_oktober78765]

I E-mailed a letter to the mayor...lets see if i get a response....

[red_oktober78765]

ok, I sent this E-mail:

To The Honorable Mayor Mr. Nicholas DeSantis:


First, I am writing to inform you of a problem that I noticed at New Stanton Recreational Public Park. I was there at the park on 06-03-2012 an noticed that the park rules bulliton is directly in the very center of the complex. This presents a problem when someone doesn't know the rules for the park. With the rules being posted in the center of the park and not at the entrance, one may inadvertently violate the rules before they have a fair chance of even being able to read the park rules to know they are in violation. Let me give you an example. Someone has a case of beer in their vehicle and drives down into the park, and gets stopped by the police while in the parking lot of the park. The officer sees the UNOPENED case of beer in their vehicle. They are over 21 years old. No real crime has been yet. BUT, since they have it in the vehicle, they are in violation of the parks' rules just by having it in the vehicle. Had the rules been posted at the entrance, they could have just simply went somewhere else and have avoided trouble. While we are on the subject of rules, I did notice that one of the rules stipulates that firearms are not permitted in the park. Municipality law can not trump State or Federal law. The wording should (and needs) to be changed to allow for the LAWFUL carry of firearms for DEFENSIVE purposes as people of a certain character (child molesters, kidnappers and the like) do frequent places like your park. We have all heard horror stories to this end. I didn't see a single policeman or guard present while I was there for at least 6 hours on 06-03-2012. The wording of the posted rules implies and suggests that even if someone lawfully obtains a license to carry firearms issued by the county sheriff and they are an upstanding citizen that they can and will be prosecuted for merely carrying their sidearm as lawfully as possible. The 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution has been clearly scrutinized and interpreted to this end, that, merely carrying a sidearm is not considered brandishing or committing any crime WHATSOEVER. What you have going on is called a PRE-EMPTION VIOLATION. Believe it or not, there are still responsible firearm owners out there who look to protect themselves and others, lawfully against predators.
Second, There isn't any "changing tables" in the restrooms to take care of babies and toddlers who may need a diaper changing while families use the park. These tables are found at most every gas station bathroom and they are not that expensive to purchase or have installed. I did see that a new pavilion is in the construction phase. Surely there must be enough money to have 2 baby changing tables installed, come on.....
Third, The grills that placed throughout the park are in serious need of replacement. You have multiple cement "bins" (throughout the park) labeled for the collection of burnt charcoal. I did see that the grills themselves are almost all rotted out or rusted through. THIS IS A SAFETY HAZARD AND A FIRE HAZARD if hot coals are left unattended because the user of said grill can not dispose of the coals properly in the bins due to the plate that holds the coals is rotted through....Or if the hot charcoal actually burns through the bottom of the grill itself....We can imagine what kind of problems could result...
Thank You for a little of your time in reading my concerns.


Sincerely,


A Concerned Citizen
And I got this response:


Dear, concerned citizen;

I wanted to let you know that your concerns were received & I will give you a response worthy of your time soon. I will have to consult our Solicitor concerning the arms complaint, but will get you a response at some point.

I encourage you to be present at the council meeting Thursday and express your concerns there, but regardless I will reply after doing appropriate research.

Thank you for taking the time to raise issues that will make our borough better,

Nick DeSantis
Mayor, New Stanton Borough

[renegadephoenix]

ok, I sent this E-mail:

To The Honorable Mayor Mr. Nicholas DeSantis:


First, I am writing to inform you of a problem that I noticed at New Stanton Recreational Public Park. I was there at the park on 06-03-2012 an noticed that the park rules bulliton is directly in the very center of the complex. This presents a problem when someone doesn't know the rules for the park. With the rules being posted in the center of the park and not at the entrance, one may inadvertently violate the rules before they have a fair chance of even being able to read the park rules to know they are in violation. Let me give you an example. Someone has a case of beer in their vehicle and drives down into the park, and gets stopped by the police while in the parking lot of the park. The officer sees the UNOPENED case of beer in their vehicle. They are over 21 years old. No real crime has been yet. BUT, since they have it in the vehicle, they are in violation of the parks' rules just by having it in the vehicle. Had the rules been posted at the entrance, they could have just simply went somewhere else and have avoided trouble. While we are on the subject of rules, I did notice that one of the rules stipulates that firearms are not permitted in the park. Municipality law can not trump State or Federal law. The wording should (and needs) to be changed to allow for the LAWFUL carry of firearms for DEFENSIVE purposes as people of a certain character (child molesters, kidnappers and the like) do frequent places like your park. We have all heard horror stories to this end. I didn't see a single policeman or guard present while I was there for at least 6 hours on 06-03-2012. The wording of the posted rules implies and suggests that even if someone lawfully obtains a license to carry firearms issued by the county sheriff and they are an upstanding citizen that they can and will be prosecuted for merely carrying their sidearm as lawfully as possible. The 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution has been clearly scrutinized and interpreted to this end, that, merely carrying a sidearm is not considered brandishing or committing any crime WHATSOEVER. What you have going on is called a PRE-EMPTION VIOLATION. Believe it or not, there are still responsible firearm owners out there who look to protect themselves and others, lawfully against predators.
Second, There isn't any "changing tables" in the restrooms to take care of babies and toddlers who may need a diaper changing while families use the park. These tables are found at most every gas station bathroom and they are not that expensive to purchase or have installed. I did see that a new pavilion is in the construction phase. Surely there must be enough money to have 2 baby changing tables installed, come on.....
Third, The grills that placed throughout the park are in serious need of replacement. You have multiple cement "bins" (throughout the park) labeled for the collection of burnt charcoal. I did see that the grills themselves are almost all rotted out or rusted through. THIS IS A SAFETY HAZARD AND A FIRE HAZARD if hot coals are left unattended because the user of said grill can not dispose of the coals properly in the bins due to the plate that holds the coals is rotted through....Or if the hot charcoal actually burns through the bottom of the grill itself....We can imagine what kind of problems could result...
Thank You for a little of your time in reading my concerns.


Sincerely,


A Concerned Citizen
And I got this response:


Dear, concerned citizen;

I wanted to let you know that your concerns were received & I will give you a response worthy of your time soon. I will have to consult our Solicitor concerning the arms complaint, but will get you a response at some point.

I encourage you to be present at the council meeting Thursday and express your concerns there, but regardless I will reply after doing appropriate research.

Thank you for taking the time to raise issues that will make our borough better,

Nick DeSantis
Mayor, New Stanton Borough

When Quoting Preemption violations please refer to the propper statute:

Title 18, Section 6120

[FNG19]

ok, I sent this E-mail:

First of all, good on you for pursuing this (inbound rep). Per the response you got, definitely attend the meeting. Have something to say about the issue, and make sure you have your facts straight. As far as the firearms issues are concerned, cite specific laws (18 PACS 6120 covers preemption). Have a copy of the law available, which you can find here (State of PA Website). Bring a copy of the park rules, which you can find here (pdf -- Borough website).

There's other feedback about the letter itself that I'm happy to give if you're interested, but if not, that's fine. The fact that you even sent a letter and pursued this puts you head and shoulders above most people who don't bother to do even that much.

Good luck at the meeting!