.223 v 25-06

[bman1187]

I just sold my 223 CZ 527 kevlar and will be buying a 25-06 it can do everything the 223 can do plus if I want I can use it for deer. The only possible advantage of the 223 is loading it down for fox but it will still probably blow them in half and ammo prices. I was thinking the 257 Weatherby but ammo prices are crazy and there are alot of them sitting in gun shops, if I want to get rid of it in the future I think I will get low balled or they may not even want it. JMO

[Sharkey]

Tomcat and Mountain ...... The sign sez no fighting ..... LOL

I am torn between the two .... .223 or 25-06

Tomcat can you post the .223 ballistics up against the 25-06 also Please

$$ don't count in the price of ammo ....IF reloading ..... either one won't break the bank
If I choose not to reload the obvious choice would be the .223

Recoil is a factor but not that big of one ...... BUT who know if the SHTF I might need the 120 gr .... LOL

And I am not that good to go 1000 ...... 4-500 max
always wanting a heavy barrell varmint rifle

Did you buy it as an investment or to hunt/shoot? Hunt that sucker is my opinion. If it has really nice wood, swap it with some sort of aftermarket stock.



If your varmint hunting is once in a while the 25-06 will work but if you're thinking a lot of shooting, recoil and ammo costs will kill you. I've killed an awful lot of groundhogs in the last 35 years with my 270 and 110 Sierras, now I prefer my son's 223 or my 7mm-08 with 100 gr Hornady HP's.



Reloading 223 is the same as reloading 25-06 unless you get some military brass, then you need to do something with the crimp in the primer pocket. That's not an issue with commercial brass.

My vote of the 2 cartridge choices would be 223, try TAC (it likes to be pushed hard) for a powder with your choice of bullet.

Dale

Rifle was givin to me years ago and I have no sentimental attachment to it ..... I have read that they are hard to find and maybe a collector or Smith enthusiast may have somthing I want and trade or willing to buy it ....... (the one I have has gone for $700 but that was a few years back)

Will probably be used more for paper than hunting

As far as reloading I would have to get dies and the other componets for the .223 ....... 50 bucks? ..... maybe 75

Really guy's did not want to start an argument ....

[Sharkey]

V fib this post ..... Been looking at new ......

vvvvvv This vvvvv

Savage Model 12 Precision Varminter Low Profile ..... I like

I don't like the left right left loading (bench only I would) of the Precision Varminter or the looks of the Varmint Rifle

over Remington 700 ?

Opinions welcome

Ballistically I am still open to the .223 and the 25-06

It's just that the 25-06 has a place in my heart and my shoulder

My First rifle in 1969 Rem 700 adl in 25-06

[Tomcat088]

Here's the requested info for the .25-06 and .223. I'll post up the .25-06 information first, same loads and info as before, then I'll post up 3 different loads for the .223.

.257 117gn Hornady BTSP G1 B.C. = .391@3,100 fps
Range (yards) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft-lb) Trajectory (inches) TOF (sec) Drift (inches)

0 3100 2496 -1.50 0.0000 0.00
100 2847 2106 -0.00 0.1010 -0.75
200 2609 1769 -2.80 0.2110 -3.09
300 2383 1476 -10.72 0.3313 -7.24
400 2169 1222 -24.77 0.4633 -13.43
500 1966 1004 -46.24 0.6085 -21.97
600 1776 819 -76.73 0.7691 -33.20
700 1599 664 -118.29 0.9472 -47.52
800 1439 538 -173.49 1.1451 -65.32
900 1298 438 -245.53 1.3648 -86.97
1000 1182 363 -338.23 1.6074 -112.64

.257 85 gn Nosler BT G1 B.C. = .329@3,550fps

Range (yards) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft-lb) Trajectory (inches) TOF (sec) Drift (inches)

0 3550 2378 -1.50 0.0000 0.00
100 3220 1957 -0.00 0.0888 -0.75
200 2913 1601 -1.86 0.1867 -3.13
300 2627 1303 -7.84 0.2952 -7.35
400 2359 1050 -18.88 0.4157 -13.69
500 2107 838 -36.19 0.5503 -22.51
600 1872 661 -61.37 0.7014 -34.23
700 1654 517 -96.52 0.8719 -49.38
800 1459 402 -144.45 1.0651 -68.52
900 1291 315 -208.77 1.2840 -92.17
1000 1157 253 -293.99 1.5299 -120.60

Ok, the first load for the .223 is going to be Hornady's 40 grain varmint round. It's a 40 grain Hornady V-max with a BC of .200 moving 3,800 fps. That's actually pretty fast, lots of loads aren't much over 3,600 fps, but that's a factory load from Hornady which is very common for varminting, so I wanted to run the numbers. The second load is a 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, with a G1 BC of .267 moving 3,100 fps. Then the last load is more of the very heavy variety, that some people would shoot out to more extended ranges. It's a 75 grain Hornady Boat Tail Hollow Point. It has a G1 BC of .395 at 2,780 fps. It's the same conditions as before, and with a 10 mph crosswind.

40 Grain Hornady V-max G1 B.C. = .200@3,800
Range Velocity Energy Trajectory TOF Drift
(yards) (fps) (ft-lb) (inches) (sec) (inches)
0 3800 1282 -1.50 0.0000 0.00
100 3239 932 -0.00 0.0856 -1.17
200 2743 668 -1.85 0.1863 -5.01
300 2299 469 -8.37 0.3058 -12.15
400 1900 320 -21.56 0.4494 -23.54
500 1549 213 -44.53 0.6245 -40.46
600 1266 142 -82.18 0.8394 -64.40
700 1075 103 -141.62 1.0981 -96.05
800 961 82 -231.06 1.3943 -134.30
900 882 69 -358.08 1.7208 -177.88
1000 819 60 -529.83 2.0744 -226.24


55 Grain Nosler BT G1 B.C. = .267@3,100 fps
Range Velocity Energy Trajectory TOF Drift
(yards) (fps) (ft-lb) (inches) (sec) (inches)
0 3100 1174 -1.50 0.0000 0.00
100 2735 914 -0.00 0.1031 -1.11
200 2399 703 -3.18 0.2202 -4.70
300 2088 532 -12.44 0.3543 -11.27
400 1802 397 -29.73 0.5090 -21.47
500 1545 292 -57.83 0.6889 -36.11
600 1326 215 -100.59 0.8988 -56.03
700 1156 163 -163.21 1.1418 -81.77
800 1040 132 -251.81 1.4163 -113.07
900 961 113 -372.50 1.7170 -148.97
1000 900 99 -530.86 2.0403 -188.85

75 Grain Hornady BTHP G1 B.C. = .395@2,780 fps
Range Velocity Energy Trajectory TOF Drift
(yards) (fps) (ft-lb) (inches) (sec) (inches)
0 2780 1287 -1.50 0.0000 0.00
100 2548 1081 0.00 0.1127 -0.85
200 2327 902 -3.87 0.2359 -3.55
300 2118 747 -14.18 0.3711 -8.34
400 1920 614 -32.26 0.5198 -15.54
500 1734 501 -59.81 0.6842 -25.49
600 1563 407 -98.96 0.8665 -38.59
700 1408 330 -152.38 1.0689 -55.22
800 1273 270 -223.39 1.2932 -75.71
900 1163 225 -315.87 1.5401 -100.19
1000 1078 193 -434.07 1.8086 -128.47

That's some numbers to compare everything. You'll notice that on the .223, obviously it doesn't buck the wind as well as the .25-06, just because the bullets aren't as heavy, and don't necessarily have the BC to compete with some of the .25-06 rounds. You'll notice that for the weight, the BC's are getting pretty high on the heavy bullets. With the heavy bullets, you'll see that the drift at more conventional distances (300 yards), isn't that far from the .25-06. It all just depends on what you want, and what you really want to do. Personally, I don't think the .25-06 is much of a varmint round. If you like one and want to buy another one, go for it. I still wouldn't choose it as a dedicated varmint rig, especially not when I had another rifle chambered for it. I can tell you 100% for a fact that bull/heavy barrel or not, it's not going to compensate for the powder column and overbore that the .25-06 has. It'll heat the barrel up much faster than other calibers mentioned, and on a factory barrel that isn't stress relieved, you're likely to see stringing and shifts in your point of impact.

[Tomcat088]

V fib this post ..... Been looking at new ......

vvvvvv This vvvvv

Savage Model 12 Precision Varminter Low Profile ..... I like

I don't like the left right left loading (bench only I would) of the Precision Varminter or the looks of the Varmint Rifle

over Remington 700 ?

Opinions welcome

Ballistically I am still open to the .223 and the 25-06

It's just that the 25-06 has a place in my heart and my shoulder

My First rifle in 1969 Rem 700 adl in 25-06

There's something that I'd like to point out to you about the rifles you're looking at. You have to remember that not all rifles come chambered in all calibers. .25-06 is somewhat of an "oddball" when it comes to companies chambering rifles in it. Most of the rifles you see chambered in .25-06 are hunting rifles with sporting contour barrels. You already have one of those, so I don't get why you'd buy another that would basically be the same thing. Savage does not chamber the model you're looking at in .25-06, so if you went with that Savage, you're not going to be able to go with the .25-06. As far as I know, Remington only makes 1 heavy barreled rifle in .25-06, and you're in luck because they just started making it. The only heavy barreled rifle in .25-06 is the brand new "SPS Long Range". All the other rifles they make chambered in .25-06 are lighter sporter contour barrels. Most of their heavy barreled rifles come in other chamberings, varmint chamberings, or the Magnum chamberings like the Sendero's do.

So basically, if you want a heavy barreled Remington 700 in the caliber, you're looking at the SPS Long Range only. It could be hard to find in stores, and you may have to order it; since it's not quite standard or common. For the record, lots of us consider the finish on the SPS line to be "sub par", and it's kind of a half ass parkerizing. It DEFINITELY will be susceptible to rust, unless you duracoat/cerakote, or similar finish it. The stocks are rather flimsy, and if you're putting weight on the front end like on a bipod or bench, it'll likely touch the barrel and then it won't be free floating. So lots of people choose to replace the stocks, or try to reinforce the stock one. At that point, you're spending a lot of money to "polish a turd", and it's all because you want to be stuck on one particular caliber and brand. I don't know all the chamberings in the Savage line as well, you might have better luck, but they still probably won't have a lot of options for heavy barreled rifles in .25-06. So that may leave you with getting a custom barrel, so that you can have your Savage in .25-06, and again, you're spending a lot of money to stick to one caliber, just because. That's fine if the chambering and using it for that purpose is that sentimental to you, but I just really don't see the sense in it.

For the record, I've never had a problem with stagger feed systems over center feed systems, when it comes to mags. Some prefer one over the other, but I think it usually depends on how well it's put together, and that if they're tuned properly, either one will run fine and reliably.

[Sharkey]

I do like what I see and words of wisdom well taken ...... I have a budget ....... let say I have $800 ..... OR ...... whick I hope ...... A trade ......... whos action/barrel gun set-up do you all like ..... New or trade for my .243 Smith

[Posit]

Without over thinking it... I have two heavy barrelled 25-06 (Savage and Remington) which are a lot of fun at the range, with far less wind problems than smaller calibers.

Also have heavy barrelled 223, 22-250 and 220 Swift. For ground hogs, my perdonsl preference is the Swift, w/22-250 as a close second. We usually shoot off a truck, so the greater weight of the 25-06 is not a problem, but I normally use a 220 Swift. I have used the 25-06s... just a matter personal preference.

I find the flatter shooting calibers are easier to hunt with - less adjustment for distance, so I can get shots off quicker. I recognize the capability of the 223, but the flat shooting guns are faster, easier for me.

[41 mag]

As stated in my earlier response, I would hang onto the .243. That being said, I remain a big fan of the 25-06 and if I were looking to use one for varmint I would SAVE and buy the Tikka T3 Varmint or T3 super varmint.
Varmint can be had for around $1100. and Super Varmint for $1500. , both are available in 25-06 with med. Hvy stainless 23.6 in. barrel. Both weigh in at approx. 8 lbs. The trigger is excellent as is stock design for shooting off a rest. Both have ajustable check piece solid bedding and are free floated. The Super has a few more bells and whistles [ picatinny rail - optilock rings, etc ]
Shy of a custom built, these may be as good as it gets for a Hvy Barrel 25-06 production rifle that has competition accurracy out of the box.