finally got a pic of the sign preemption violation

**delcosheriffsucks** · May 22nd, 2012, 06:14 PM

how should i proceed?

buchanan park lancaster

**FNG19** · May 22nd, 2012, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by delcosheriffsucks

how should i proceed?

I would probably have this thread merged with your other one (http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...g-pot-but.html) so the conversation can happen in one place.

From this post (http://forum.pafoa.org/2011041-post-7.html), I said:

For example, if the city is responsible for the park (or its ordinance is being cited), then the right people to contact would be the city council chairperson, with CC's to the mayor and the head of the parks department.

Now that we know the city ordinance is being cited, I think the above advice would be valid.

**tl_3237** · May 23rd, 2012, 11:59 AM

There is no pre-emption violation - the issue is not with the city's regulation. The issue is that the sign incorrectly states the prohibitions:

§ 210-2. Regulations.
Within the limits of any park, no person shall:
A. Permit any dog or other animal except wildlife to run at large.

B. Permit any dog or other animal to defecate unless the owner, custodian or keeper of such dog or other animal immediately cleans up and removes the defecation and disposes of the same in a sanitary manner.

C. Hunt for, shoot at, chase, catch or intentionally injure or kill or attempt to shoot at, chase, catch or intentionally injure or kill, with or without dogs, any bird or animal.

D. Fish at any time between sundown and sunrise or at any place, except in the Conestoga River, without a special permit.

E. Use a boat at any place not designated as a boating area, provided that this shall not apply to employees of the City while engaged in the performance of their duties.

F. Swim, wade or bathe at any place except in a public swimming or wading pool.

G. Engage in any unlawful gaming or throwing stones or missiles.

H. Discharge firearms, bows and arrows, air or spring rifles or slings.
[Amended 11-25-2008 by Ord. No. 14-2008]

I. Transport, possess, drink or be under the influence of malt or brewed beverages, spirits, liquors or wine unless authorized by the Mayor's Office of Special Events acting as agent for the Director of Public Works.

[Amended 11-25-2008 by Ord. No. 14-2008]

J. Break, cut, deface, disturb, injure or take any flower, fruit, plant, tree, shrub, bench, building, fence, monuments or other structure, apparatus or property.

K. Gather or remove any wood, turf, grass, soil, rock, sand or gravel.

L. Disturb any fish, bird or animal in any place.

M. Injure, deface or destroy any posted or permanently fixed signs or notices.

N. Smoke in areas where forbidden by signs.

O. Discard lighted matches, cigars or cigarettes in any wooded area.

P. Throw or deposit cans, bottles, broken glass, paper, dog defecation or rubbish of any description except in the containers provided for the same.

Q. Discard any garbage, dead animal or offensive matter or substance of any kind except as otherwise herein permitted.

R. Make or kindle fire except in picnic stoves or fireplaces provided for that purpose.

S. Post or erect any bills, notices or advertising matter of any kind, provided that this shall not apply to notices placed by employees of the City engaged in the performance of their duties.

T. Sell or offer for sale any merchandise, article or thing whatsoever, provided that this shall not apply to authorized concessionaires.

U. Engage in camping, archery or any game, sport or foot race except on such grounds or place specially designated for such purpose.

V. Stand or park any vehicle except at those places designated therefor.

W. Violate any posted rules for or misuse any picnic court, camp area, playfield, swimming pool or other recreational area.

X. Operate an unlicensed motor vehicle.

Y. Wash, polish or repair any motor vehicle, except for emergency repairs.

Z. Have any musical, theatrical or other entertainment therein without a permit from the Superintendent of Parks and Public Property.

AA. Operate any vehicle or bicycle at any place other than roadways or special areas designed for operation of such vehicles.

BB. Commit any public nuisance.

CC. Operate a snowmobile, minibike or go-cart at any place except authorized areas.

DD. Except for those with a permit, congregating in any area which will hamper the free movement of pedestrians.

[Amended 11-25-2008 by Ord. No. 14-2008]

EE. Abandon any vehicle within the limits of any part or roads abutting such park.

As such, you probably should contact the parks department or whoever is responsible for the actual sign and advise them that their posted restriction do not comport with the actual laws.

**coppery** · May 23rd, 2012, 04:33 PM

The Prohibition of firearms is one thing, and must be fixed, but you're not allowed to pick flowers or bring metal detectors? are they afraid that you might make a nice bouquet to your lady friend for free, or that you may find a priceless artifact to which they won't make a dime off of? This is the type of crappy rules that makes me not want to live on this planet anymore...

sorry for the rant. Personally I think we should all make a collaborative effort to send a letter to the township heads to notify them of the UFA and to just see which parks they have those restrictions and remove them per UFA code.

**Ranger P229** · May 23rd, 2012, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by coppery

The Prohibition of firearms is one thing, and must be fixed, but you're not allowed to pick flowers or bring metal detectors? are they afraid that you might make a nice bouquet to your lady friend for free, or that you may find a priceless artifact to which they won't make a dime off of? This is the type of crappy rules that makes me not want to live on this planet anymore...

Those regs make perfect sense. The only reason public and state parks aren't torn apart and shitty ( and some still are) is restrictive regs. The flowers that look pretty would be picked, torn out by the roots, and gone in a year or two. State and local parks will see thousands of visitors a day during nice weather. How many holes do you want dug all over fields that folks play ball, picnic, or walk animals in?

**gnbrotz** · May 23rd, 2012, 06:05 PM

Any reason you posted the pic and have ongoing discussion about the issue in two different threads?

**tl_3237** · May 23rd, 2012, 07:01 PM

Originally Posted by coppery

The Prohibition of firearms is one thing, and must be fixed, but you're not allowed to pick flowers or bring metal detectors? are they afraid that you might make a nice bouquet to your lady friend for free, or that you may find a priceless artifact to which they won't make a dime off of? This is the type of crappy rules that makes me not want to live on this planet anymore...

sorry for the rant. Personally I think we should all make a collaborative effort to send a letter to the township heads to notify them of the UFA and to just see which parks they have those restrictions and remove them per UFA code.

Guess you missed the preceeding post (#3) that there is no UFA pre-emption issue here! The issue is inaccurate signage.