open carry at the green dragon

[heatheroo]

I live in the development behind the Green Dragon. I go there maybe once a month. Assuming it is warm enough not to warrant a coat, I am always OC. (SP-101 IWB) No one has ever said a word to me. Your mileage may vary.

[jw34]

Neither in a vehicle nor in a building is deterministic as to whether a firearm is concealed. It relies more on the 'observability' of the firearm to a passer-by.
From another thread:

North Dakota Code and Blacks Law Dictionary are not PA law. If one wants to know PA law, one should reference the PA law books.
A legal defense of "But in North Dakota...." doesn't work well in PA.

[Mitch10mm]

I've open carried there many times as well.

[tl_3237]

North Dakota Code and Blacks Law Dictionary are not PA law. If one wants to know PA law, one should reference the PA law books.
A legal defense of "But in North Dakota...." doesn't work well in PA.

As I aptly stated in the quoted post:

FWIW when a court seeks a definition that is not provided by state or case laws they can, and do, reach out to statutes in other states to formulate definitions for use in the case at hand.

The thrust of my post was to show what definitions are available, since PA lacks same, and that state courts can and do look at references such as I provided in the divination of a Pa definition for subsequent application to their instant case under consideration. And, yes, one could suggest to a court, wrestling with a definition, to take judicial notice of a sister state's phraseology, a sister state's appellate rulings and entries in Black's Law Dictionary as input into their calculus.

For those unfamiliar with it:

Black's Law Dictionary is the most widely used law dictionary in the United States. It was founded by Henry Campbell Black (1860–1927). It is the reference of choice for definitions in legal briefs and court opinions and has been cited as a secondary legal authority in many U.S. Supreme Court cases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black's_Law_Dictionary

More directly, here at PAFOA, when trying to ascribe a definition lacking in PA statute or case law, we look towards the same documentary evidence available to the Pa courts to make an educated 'guess' as to what definition they might implement. Obviously only the court's final ruling after their ratiocinative processes is definite but, in the interim, we can hypothesize as to likely candidate definitions that may be adopted.

-----------------------ETA-------

In support of the above was a analogous discussion regarding the "place of business" phrase used in statutes of various states including 18 Pa CS §6106(a). In a ruling of the Supreme Court of CT, trying to prescribe a definition to said undefined statutory phrase, you can see that the court not only considered Black's Law dictionary but also alien court rulings from many states (including NJ, Ill, PA, and DC) to wit:

There are several other jurisdictions with similar prohibitions
against unregulated handguns that limit the
‘‘place of business’’ exception to businesses in which
there is a possessory or proprietary interest. See, e.g.,
Scott v. United States, 392 A.2d 4, 6 (D.C. App. 1978)
(exception limited to those with ‘‘controlling . . .
interest in the business premises’’); Berkley v. United
States, 370 A.2d 1331, 1333 (D.C. App. 1977) (‘‘The common
understanding of ‘place of business’ read in context
with ‘dwelling house’ . . . is one of a protectible possessory
interest. . . . [T]he exception is applicable
only to those who have a controlling, proprietary or
possessory interest in the business premises in question.’’);
People v. Free, 112 Ill. App. 3d 449, 453, 445
N.E.2d 529 (1983) (exception extended to ‘‘proprietor’s
fixed place of business’’); People v. Clark, 21 Mich. App.
712, 716, 176 N.W.2d 427 (1970) (exception created to
allow people to defend place in which they have possessory
interest); State v. Valentine, 124 N.J. Super.
425, 427, 307 A.2d 617 (1973) (‘‘place of business’’ not
extended to cover manager of bar owned by another);
People v. Francis, 45 App. Div. 2d 431, 432, 358 N.Y.S.2d
148 (1974) (‘‘place of business’’ implies possession and
right to defend); Commonwealth v. Carr, 334 Pa. Super.
459, 462, 483 A.2d 542 (1984) (exception limited to ‘‘persons
who have a controlling, proprietary, or possessory
interest in their place of business’’). These cases illustrate
their respective jurisdiction’s statutory intent to
restrict the presence of unlicensed handguns in the
public sphere. Because we conclude that this is the same purpose behind § 29-35 (a),
we are persuaded
to follow the example of our sister states who have
interpreted the phrase ‘‘place of business’’ to mean that
in which one has a possessory or proprietary interest.

STATE OF CONNECTICUT v. CHRISTOPHER M. VICKERS
(SC 16376) (2002)

[jw34]

Oh, I hear ya, if we're trying to define the word concealed, which you posted in response to concealing with a vehicle or building.
I believe PA laws are quite clear in regards to the LTCF requirement with a firearm in the vehicke.

[tl_3237]

Oh, I hear ya, if we're trying to define the word concealed, which you posted in response to concealing with a vehicle or building.
I believe PA laws are quite clear in regards to the LTCF requirement with a firearm in the vehicke.

I presume you are discussing the language excerpted from 18 Pa CS §6106(a):

any person who
carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a
firearm concealed on or about his person

Are you aware of any Pa statute or court addressing:

• limitations on the scope of the default UFA definition of 'vehicle' (1 PA CS §1991)???
• How does one interpret "in"?
• What if one rides 'on' [as opposed to 'in'] the vehicle such as a motorcycle which does not have a physical envelope about the occupant?

Still think "PA laws are quite clear in regards to the LTCF requirement with a firearm in the vehicke [sic]" ???

Yes my previous post was in response to a probable meaning of "concealed".

[RugerNiner]

I thought you had to be a PA resident to open carry in PA.

[gnbrotz]

I thought you had to be a PA resident to open carry in PA.

Based on what?

[twency]

I thought you had to be a PA resident to open carry in PA.

You don't.