Is the Chesco Sheriff's deputy wrong, or am I? UPDATED: The Sheriff responds

[TheWolff]

I was at the Chesco Sheriff's office today with the wife, so she could apply for her LTCF. He told her that PA is an open carry state, but he doesn't recommend it. He told her the license allows her to conceal or to carry in a vehicle as long as it is "on your side", and that if she gets stopped, if the officer asks if she's carrying and she says "yes, it's in the glovebox or under the seat", she'll get a fine. He said even those purses designed for carry aren't legal with a LTCF in a vehicle.

I interrupted there and said, excuse me Sir, that's just not true. I told him there is no obligation to conceal with the LTCF, and when carrying in a vehicle, the weapon can certainly be elsewhere on or about her person. He reiterated that it's for "on your hip", and said you can OC in PA, but need a license to conceal or carry in a vehicle, then said "why else would you need a license"? I told him to carry concealed or otherwise in a vehicle, to carry during declared SOE, to accept a loaned firearm. He asked me if I was a cop. I said, "no, just an informed citizen".

He said "seriously, if you get pulled over and tell the officer that you have a gun in the glovebox, you'll get a fine". I said "first, I'm not telling you I have a gun in the vehicle, but if you don't mind, what's the charge or offense that I'd be getting the fine for?" He said he didn't know, but was sure that it was illegal. He said I could ask any cop.

Then during portion where he talked about castle doctrine, he said "pretty much any time you shoot someone, somebody is going to sue you", without explaining anything about the protection castle doctrine provides against such suits. I didn't say anything, figuring I'd teach her more about castle doctrine on the drive home.

So what's the verdict on carry in a vehicle? Is there any caselaw to show that "on or about my person" doesn't include the center console or glovebox? What about the exception for my spouse needing a LTCF if I own the car, gun, and have an LTCF? Doesn't that assume the gun is not on my person?

The Corporal was polite the whole time and encouraged me to educate myself by reading and asking other officers. He said if I find he's wrong, to give him a call back.

Oh, he also didn't take her fingerprints. Are they not doing that now, or did he forget and she'll get denied for it?

UPDATE:
Less than 2 hours after the email left my inbox, I got a call from Sheriff Welsh. She said she was out of the office but read my email on her cell phone and her jaw dropped open in surprise. She said the Cpl was absolutely wrong and she has no idea where he got that information. She implied that he was lucky she wasn't in the office when she read it.

She said she forwarded it to her Ops LT, then called and spoke with him while he tracked down the Cpl I spoke with. The Ops LT had never heard of any such regulation or fine.

When asked, the Cpl remembered speaking to me, and noted that I was very polite (she interjected that it doesn't matter how polite the conversation is if the info is wrong). He said that the rule as he gave it was his understanding. He was told that it was absolutely incorrect. She said that she instructs the deputies to point people directly to the UFA when they have any questions. She said she would rather have them go to the source documents even for reciprocity, because it could change before the handouts get updated and she doesn't want her office distributing bad info.

She said she had her Ops LT gather all the deputies and give them the correct info and she assured me that this info would never be given from her office again. She said they have yearly training and instruction, and they will again be reminded to point to the statute. She thanked me for bringing it to her attention and apologized for the inconvenience.

I told her I appreciated her pro-gun stance and everything she does to defend our freedoms, and that I knew it hadn't been done out of malice or directed from above. She was very kind and polite, but clearly outraged that this happened. I absolutely believe that it won't happen again.

BTW, she also told me that they don't do fingerprints. I didn't include that in my email to her, so either she or her Ops Lt read this thread. Thanks everyone for contributing, and thanks to all whose action has/will correct the issue.

[PaBimmerGuy]

under this guys rules when i go to the range with my gun in the trunk i am subject to a fine.

[bogey1]

And he's a sheriff?

[TheWolff]

under this guys rules when i go to the range with my gun in the trunk i am subject to a fine.

I asked about that. I said I go to the range with 4 guns in a range bag in the back seat, and he said "that's fine, you don't need a license for that", but didn't explain how me having a license makes that illegal. I didn't specify whether they were loaded or unloaded in the range bag.

[cakeshooter]

What the heck? Well if I get pulled over by THAT guy, I'll just whip my handbag over my neck and say "Now its on my side."

Sounds like alotta hot air, to me.

[DonM55]

Oh, he also didn't take her fingerprints. Are they not doing that now, or did he forget and she'll get denied for it?

There's no state requirement for finger prints.

As far as being sued. I believe you can still be sued but the person filing the suit has to pay your expenses if it's ruled a justified shooting.

[silkworm]

Oh, he also didn't take her fingerprints. Are they not doing that now, or did he forget and she'll get denied for it?

I wasn't printed either when I got mine in January, nor my brother. Recieved them 2 weeks later without issue.

As far as the rest of your post, it seems pretty doubtful that you must have it on your hip. At least he was polite, but let's be thankfull that this LEO is confined to the ChesCo. courthouse and not out menacing the public with his lack of legal knowledge.

[streaker69]

Are you going to post a copy of the letter you're writing to the sheriff informing him of the bad information his subordinates are giving out the public?

[dwalk]

Are you going to post a copy of the letter you're writing to the sheriff informing him of the bad information his subordinates are giving out the public?

Chesco sheriff is a woman, Bunny Welsh, but yeah, you should definitely let them know about the bad information being provided.

[God's Country]

Another dumb ass welfare recipient of tax payer dollars.

Cracks me up if you ask them for legal advise they’ll tell you to see a lawyer.
But they have no issue offering up half baked gun law advise to anyone that will listen.

He shouldn’t be allowed to write a parking ticket.