.223 legal for deer in PA?

[firemanmark]

A very still standing deer at no more than 200yrds, with 100-175yrds being a more ideal limit. Heart/lung shot, or a neck/head if you can MOA accuracy with the gun and loads. If the hunter can only reliably do 1-3MOA then stick with the heart/lungs.

I would definately not recommend a head/neck shot at ANY range to a begining hunter especially with such a light caliber. I would also keep the range closer to 100 yards. I have always thought of the lighter calibers as more of "expert" rounds vs beginner rounds as the smaller bullet weight/energy requires more of a precise shot placement and is less forgiving with a slightly off shot. To the OP you might wanna look into the reduced recoil or lite rounds chambered in some of the more "traditional" deer calibers by the major brands such as remington, federal fusion and hornady. You mentioned the .30-30 in a prior post I know hornady makes a 150gr load in their CustomLite brand http://www.hornady.com/store/30-30-W...RN-CustomLite/

[Old Shooter]

I know a guy who is the best rifle shot I ever saw "NRA High Master" he has shot countless deer with a 223 and told me he never needed a second shot. Skill says a lot ,practice and you can do it. The guy who shoots 2 or 3 shots a year and considers himself a marksman needs all the help he can get.

[knight0334]

I would definately not recommend a head/neck shot at ANY range to a begining hunter especially with such a light caliber. I would also keep the range closer to 100 yards. I have always thought of the lighter calibers as more of "expert" rounds vs beginner rounds as the smaller bullet weight/energy requires more of a precise shot placement and is less forgiving with a slightly off shot. To the OP you might wanna look into the reduced recoil or lite rounds chambered in some of the more "traditional" deer calibers by the major brands such as remington, federal fusion and hornady. You mentioned the .30-30 in a prior post I know hornady makes a 150gr load in their CustomLite brand http://www.hornady.com/store/30-30-W...RN-CustomLite/

I do agree. Neck/head shots should be avoided even by seasoned hunters/shooter. But given the limited energy and diameter of a .224" caliber gun, it is one of the two viable places to guaranty a humane harvest.

With the range too, I agree. Even with bigger guns shots should be kept as close as possible. Exceptions for higher powered guns - then there at times when "too close" is a reality.

[JDC]

If recoil is the issue than I would have to recommend the 243. This is a fantastic beginner deer caliber with sufficient knockdown power even if your shot is a little off. The 223 will not be a forgiving caliber if you don't have a perfect shot. The last thing you want a beginner doing is wounding a deer and then having to finish it off. That will definitely ruin a first time deer hunting experience

[fallenleader]

how about bigger caliber and a high end recoil pad?

[dk99358]

If recoil is the issue than I would have to recommend the 243.

Being a real gun loonie and Savage fan, I'd suggest the 250 Savage in a new Savage bolt action but it's pretty much six one way and half dozen the other.

6mm Remington is better than the 243 too

I saw the OP mentioned the recoil of a 30-30. If that was in a Marlinchester lever action from the bench, that could be why it hurt. Those rifles are light in weight and can be a bit 'snappy' when they recoil plus the solid buttplate has no give. Some of the single shots are as bad.

All the major manufacturers offer reduced recoil ammo for larger cartridges, maybe one of those would meet your needs too.

The 223 will work but there are better choices.

Dale

[mauser]

In my case it is for overcoming a significant other's recoil sensitivity. For her, even a .30-30 has too much recoil.



Mind sharing what some of those variables might be?



What kind of shot placement and range would you suggest?

BTW to all posters, no, the person using the .223 would not be using an AR (it is illegal and I do not have one and am not fond of them either) but would be using a Savage Axis XP chambered for .223. So when answering, please keep that in mind.

30-30 does have significant recoil. In my opinion it's not a good beginner rifle at all. If you want to train someone to shoot without flinching you shouldn't even consider any 30 caliber.

You were pretty close, it was a restriction on 22 and 25 caliber RIMFIRE cartridges. When I started hunting in '73, I could have used the 32 long rimfire in the cabinet (but had better choices). I'm not sure when they changed the wording to the current version and dropped the rimfire stuff from the digest, it's been quite a while. Like I said on page 1, it's moot point now.

Seems to me we had this discussion a while back, someone actually had an old small digest and posted a picture of the pertinent page.

As stated several times already, use a good bullet, pick your shots and the 223 will do the job both legally and ethically.

Dale

I was involved in that discussion. There were at least two members who posted pictures of pages of the hunting regulations booklets from various years. I was one of those who posted. I found an older book on eBay and bought it just for that thread. I posted the picture I did to prove myself wrong on my recollection of caliber restriction on rimfire.
I was wrong and someone handed my ass to me for it. I posted the picture to back him up and shut me up. If I can find it I'll post the link here.

[mauser]

I found it.
It was Ithaca1937 who set me straight. See posts #56 and #58 for the nitty gritty, real through the entire thread for more insight.

http://forum.pafoa.org/hunting-23/127689-223-deer.html

[kel ruger man]

if you think about it, a bad shot with a larger caliber is just as bad as a bad shot with a 223. i am sure others here have lost a deer because of a bad shot.

[mauser]

if you think about it, a bad shot with a larger caliber is just as bad as a bad shot with a 223. i am sure others here have lost a deer because of a bad shot.

I've seen a lot of bad shots due to over confidence and complacency. Someone with a larger caliber who knows that all he has to do is hit the deer and it'll be down is by far worse than a skilled hunter using a "pea shooter" caliber.