Traveling Without LTCF

[Thomas Paine]

ok, i hear it all the time "without an LTCF, drive straight to the range, don't make any stops, Dunkin Donuts, etc, don't go the long way to drop off cookies at your momma's house, etc, etc.

In the event that you did get pulled over, and an LEO saw your weapon, and you didn't have an LTCF, How would they 'prove' that you were not going to an approved place, if you exercised your 5th amendment rights and STFU?

Not that i don't drive straight to the range, or my vacation property, or my place of business, or firearms dealer, or etc, but it seems to me that if you STFU, then you'd be ok, even if you did make a wrong turn to drop cookies off at your mom's house.

Unless they were behind you at dunkin donuts, but that's a different story.

Thoughts/experience?

[IronSight]

In the event that you did get pulled over, and an LEO saw your weapon,

This scenario is, in my opinion, nearly 100% avoidable.

ETA: Considering you won't be physically carrying it on you I see no reason you can't keep it completely out of sight.

[twency]

ok, i hear it all the time "without an LTCF, drive straight to the range, don't make any stops, Dunkin Donuts, etc, don't go the long way to drop off cookies at your momma's house, etc, etc.

In the event that you did get pulled over, and an LEO saw your weapon, and you didn't have an LTCF, How would they 'prove' that you were not going to an approved place, if you exercised your 5th amendment rights and STFU?

Not that i don't drive straight to the range, or my vacation property, or my place of business, or firearms dealer, or etc, but it seems to me that if you STFU, then you'd be ok, even if you did make a wrong turn to drop cookies off at your mom's house.

Unless they were behind you at dunkin donuts, but that's a different story.

Thoughts/experience?

Because you are claiming one of the exceptions to the prohibition on carrying a firearm in a vehicle without a license, I believe the burden of proof shifts to you to prove you weren't breaking the law. You're innocent until proven guilty, true, but the fact that you're carrying a firearm in a vehicle without a license is compelling evidence that you're guilty, unless you can prove otherwise. If you say nothing in your defense, you can't prove you were acting under one of the exceptions.

That said, if this actually comes up, don't try to explain it to the cop yourself. You might try just saying "I was going to [or from] the range" and seeing if the cop accepts it, and if so great, but if not then you're best off lawyering-up before you dig yourself in deeper. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court.

I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.

EDIT: Philbert pointed out below that the statute explicitly requires that you prove you meet an exception, so that settles it. I forgot it was actually spelled out in the statute.

[Thomas Paine]

Well, its really just a thought experiment. Whatever direction you car is travelling, you are certainly headed towards a gunshop or range or club, whether its 20 miles away, or 200 miles away.

[Philbert]

IANAL so I can't explain this in detail, but it looks like the law places a burden on you to show that you were in fact going to / from the range.

§ 6122. Proof of license and exception.

General rule. -- When carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle, an individual licensed to carry a firearm shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce the license for inspection. Failure to produce such license either at the time of arrest or at the preliminary hearing shall create a rebuttable presumption of nonlicensure.

Exception. -- An individual carrying a firearm on or about his person or in a vehicle and claiming an exception under section 6106(b) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) shall, upon lawful demand of a law enforcement officer, produce satisfactory evidence of qualification for exception.

(Dec. 19, 1988, P.L.1275, No.158, eff. 180 days; Apr. 22, 1997, P.L.73, No.5, eff. 60 days)

If you can get an LTCF I strongly suggest doing so.

[streaker69]

Well, its really just a thought experiment. Whatever direction you car is travelling, you are certainly headed towards a gunshop or range or club, whether its 20 miles away, or 200 miles away.

You need to look at it this way. The police don't give a shit about trying to prove anything. They'll charge you with the crime and then let it up to the courts to sort it out. That is after they seize your firearm for the 'illegal" transportation. You'll end up spending a few thousand getting it sorted out even if you're acquitted, you've still lost because you cannot recover any of the cost from the police for the "bad" arrest. Then you'll need to get a court order (more money) to have them return your firearm.

It's a no lose situation for them, and a no win situation for you.

[Thomas Paine]

Aha. section 6122 settles that question then.

Thanks guys

[mrjam2jab]

This scenario is, in my opinion, nearly 100% avoidable.

ETA: Considering you won't be physically carrying it on you I see no reason you can't keep it completely out of sight.

Quoted for truth.

[gnbrotz]

ETA: Considering you won't be physically carrying it on you I see no reason you can't keep it completely out of sight.

Travel to/from the range does not require the firearm be "in a secure wrapper", etc. Only that it be unloaded. Thus, it may very well be "carried" and/or otherwise transported in a way that leaves it visible to an observer.

[knight0334]

Is it worth the risk of becoming a prohibited person? The base offense is a Felony 3, but if you were eligible to receive a LTCF it is a Misdemeanor 1. ...either makes you prohibited for life, nationwide.