kel-tec sub 2000 - pistol or rifle?

[srobinson007]

I have a friend who wants to get a kel-tec sub 2000 that he can take into New York State. He has gotten conflicting answers that the sub 2000 is a pistol because it has a folding stock and pistol grip and therefore can't be legally taken into NYS. Anyone know?

[silkworm]

I believe it's titled as a carbine. The folding stock isn't the deciding factor in the pistol/not pistol debate, the length of the barrel is. For instance the Draco is, for the most part, the same firearm as the full sized AKs but the lenth of the barrel is listed as 11.75", making it a pistol and therefore it can't have a butt stock without being a class III gun. I believe the line between pistol vs. rifle barrel length is 12" but please look further into this as I'm not 100% sure and the ATF aren't nice.
There are plenty of rifle length firearms out there that shoot handgun rounds, so that doesn't matter either. Look no further than the Henry lever actions for examples.
So short answer, no it's not a pistol. Now if NY has any state specific laws against owning them I can't say, some politicians think if it's all black and part of it folds it must be the tool of international assasins.

[Neko456]

Its not a new idea but it is categorized as a carbine that shoots handgun caliber rounds unless you are talking about the 2000 that shoots the 5.56/ 223 then its a carbine. The neat thing about the Kel tec 2000 just like the expensive Beretta carbine is that you can match the gun to the pistol you carry so mags fit and for Glock, Beretta and Sig thats a 22-35 round magazine. Unlike the Hi point carbines that only use Hi point pistol magazine.

Its a carbine.

[streaker69]

I didn't think the Sub2k had a folding stock, the gun itself folds, but it cannot be fired from that position. I believe that their idea is that if it has a pistol grip and a folding stock that it can be fired from is what is banned.

But it's NY, so you're pretty much rolling the dice with your freedom and rights just by crossing the border with a firearm, legal or not.

[mpan72]

I have a friend who wants to get a kel-tec sub 2000 that he can take into New York State. He has gotten conflicting answers that the sub 2000 is a pistol because it has a folding stock and pistol grip and therefore can't be legally taken into NYS. Anyone know?

Its a carbine, Tell you friend to check The NY state laws and also any special ords for the city or town he is actually going to be in. Getting help on a forum like Pafoa should only be the start of his research. Have him read the actual laws.

[Noah_Zark]

. . . I believe the line between pistol vs. rifle barrel length is 12" but please look further into this as I'm not 100% sure and the ATF aren't nice . . .

Not really. To clarify: Rifles -- 16" min barrel length and NLT 26" OAL.


Examples of where handgun vs. rifle gets tricky:

A Thompson Center handgun with a 10", 12", 16" or 18" barrel is still a pistol, providing it has no stock.

A stocked TC with a 16" or 18" barrel is a rifle if originally delivered in that configuration from the TC factory.

A stocked TC with a barrel any shorter than 16" is a "Short Barreled Rifle" (SBR), an NFA weapon requiring payment of a $200 tax to either make or transfer.

Noah

[carrguy1]

Not to hijack the thread but here's a question for you. I recently got a Hi-Pont 995TS. Hi-Point calls it a carbine. It's got a 16.5" barrel and OAL is 31.5" so as far as I know that means it's a rifle. I ordered it online and had it shipped to a local shop for transfer. The girl working there by herself at the time was unsure of how to process it, as a rifle or handgun. She called someone and they decided it needed to be processed as a handgun. In my ignorance I didn't think it mattered to me as long as I was allowed to leave with it.

Should it have been processed as a rifle? Does it matter that she treated it like a handgun? Would anything have been different if they processed it as a rifle?

[Valorius]

The 995 is a rifle. Those people that sold you the gun are total idiots.

[carrguy1]

The 995 is a rifle. Those people that sold you the gun are total idiots.

Technically they didn't sell it to me. I just had it shipped there for them to do the transfer.

So does it make a difference that they treated it like a handgun instead of a rifle during the transfer?

[Valorius]

Technically they didn't sell it to me. I just had it shipped there for them to do the transfer.

So does it make a difference that they treated it like a handgun instead of a rifle during the transfer?

Well if it is registered as a handgun, it may be in violation since it has a stock on it....or maybe not. I think ATF changed that regulation recently....?