Virgin AR receiver transfer question

[Franky4Fingers]

I'm going to contemplate working a deal with a friend here but I have an important question to ask first.

If there was a virgin stripped lower bought at the ECGS going out of business sale, and it was bought for intended use as a long gun. No PSP hand gun transfer paper was done. And this person put a lower parts kit in, but NEVER attatched it to an upper. Its just sitting in the safe.

Can we go to a FFL and do a handgun transfer paper and it be legal for me to own it and make it into a handgun?

[fletchfletch]

was a stock ever attached to it?

[kimura]

I'm going to contemplate working a deal with a friend here but I have an important question to ask first.

If there was a virgin stripped lower bought at the ECGS going out of business sale, and it was bought for intended use as a long gun. No PSP hand gun transfer paper was done. And this person put a lower parts kit in, but NEVER attatched it to an upper. Its just sitting in the safe.

Can we go to a FFL and do a handgun transfer paper and it be legal for me to own it and make it into a handgun?

if it was never made into a rifle, it's perfectly legal to be made into a handgun.

[nateebobo]

im clueless as to this, im just wondering why you cant make a rifle into a pistol. i know you cant go putting a stock on a pistol but does this mean converting a shotgun to pistol grip only sans buttstock is a no no as well? i just want to know the general yays and nays of switching around these things to keep myself outta trouble in the future cause i actually thought of getting a rifle and pistol tube and upper to switch between and have both but if this is illegal i guess that changes those plans now doesnt it.

[kimura]

im clueless as to this, im just wondering why you cant make a rifle into a pistol. i know you cant go putting a stock on a pistol but does this mean converting a shotgun to pistol grip only sans buttstock is a no no as well? i just want to know the general yays and nays of switching around these things to keep myself outta trouble in the future cause i actually thought of getting a rifle and pistol tube and upper to switch between and have both but if this is illegal i guess that changes those plans now doesnt it.

unless the rifle/pistol began life as a pistol, it's illegal to switch back and forth (unless it's a SBR). the batf recently declared that pistols can be made into rifles and back into pistols.

putting a pistol grip on a shotgun doesn't make it a pistol.

owning an ar15 pistol upper without a lower and while in possession of an ar15 rifle could constitute 'constructive possession.'

and this question shows up every week on here.

[knight0334]

Until the receiver is made into a PA "firearm" it is only a receiver. No paperwork is needed unless it crosses state lines. If a stock was attached to it you must apply for an SBR tax stamp.

To be a PA "firearm" there must be a barrel to make the measurement, except for dedicated pistol receivers like a 1911 receiver, etc, etc. Since the AR can be used for a pistol or a rifle, it just merely a receiver until built into a handgun, long gun, or NFA device.

All that needs to transpire is you handing him the money, him handing you the receiver, then you building it as you want. If a should stock was attached, well - you cannot be in possession of a <16" barrel until you have a SBR tax stamp.

[kimura]

Until the receiver is made into a PA "firearm" it is only a receiver. No paperwork is needed unless it crosses state lines. If a stock was attached to it you must apply for an SBR tax stamp.

To be a PA "firearm" there must be a barrel to make the measurement, except for dedicated pistol receivers like a 1911 receiver, etc, etc. Since the AR can be used for a pistol or a rifle, it just merely a receiver until built into a handgun, long gun, or NFA device.

All that needs to transpire is you handing him the money, him handing you the receiver, then you building it as you want. If a should stock was attached, well - you cannot be in possession of a <16" barrel until you have a SBR tax stamp.

the stock is only an issue if there's also a barrel.

without a barrel, it's still just a receiver. ie: if it never had a barrel, the receiver could have a stock and then have the stock removed to build a pistol.

[Franky4Fingers]

To the gentlemen that said this question gets asked once a week, I think your in error. While some form of this may get asked, no one is asking it the specific way I'm asking it. (as far as I know) Go back and carefully re read my original post.

Also. Being we're Pennsylvanians, I'm asking both as an American, and a Pennsylvanian. I believe the answer Knight gave, was a federally compliant answer, but not necessarily a Pennsylvania compliant one. So while it may avoid me from violating NFA....which is always good... It doesn't necessarly mean I'll avoid a smokey the bear, if stopped.

[knight0334]

the stock is only an issue if there's also a barrel.

without a barrel, it's still just a receiver. ie: if it never had a barrel, the receiver could have a stock and then have the stock removed to build a pistol.

Once a stock is on it - it is a long gun to the GCA and NFA. The only time that doesn't matter is when the receiver was built into a pistol first or as a pistol & rifle kit, and then configured into a long gun - then built back into a pistol. ....like those kits that have a pistol and long gun combination.

If it was first assembled as a rifle(with a shoulder stock), it is a long gun. For it to be convertible it has to be assembled as a pistol first.

There was a notice released by the ATF sometime last year about this.
http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ing-2011-4.pdf

Such weapons must be registered and are subject to all requirements of the NFA.

Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when parts in a kit that were originally designed to be configured as both a pistol and a rifle are assembled or re-assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length).

Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol).

Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle. Such weapons must be registered and are subject to all requirements of the NFA.

To the extent this ruling may be inconsistent with any prior letter rulings, they are hereby
superseded.
Date approved: July 25, 2011

[knight0334]

To the gentlemen that said this question gets asked once a week, I think your error. While some form of this may get asked, no one is asking it the specific way I'm asking it. (as far as I know) Go back and carefully re read my original post.

Also. Being we're Pennsylvanians, I'm asking both as an American, and a Pennsylvanian. I believe the answer Knight gave, was a federally compliant answer, but not necessarily a Pennsylvania compliant one. So while it may avoid me from violating NFA....which is always good. Id doesn't necessarly mean I'll avoid a smokey the bear, if stopped.

For PA nothing needs to happen because the unbarreled receiver is not a "firearm" to PA law(except to prohibited persons and such). No FFL/Sheriff transfer needs to take place because the receiver, whether it unassembled or assembled as a long gun, is not a PA "firearm" for the required paperwork transfer typically needed for handguns/SBS/SBR.

I'm only assuming the guy attached the shoulder stock to it when he assembled the lower parts kit - which no longer makes it a virgin receiver. ...so with that assumption the only thing the receiver can be made into is a rifle unless you get an NFA stamp first. It doesn't need a SP4-113 Record of Sale transfer in its current build state.