PA PICS says "undetermined"

[J8300]

So I ordered a shotgun at once place then I went over to another store and decided to buy an AR off the shelf. He calls it in and after waiting forever and a few questions from the operator about tattoos, places I've lived, and when I moved to PA they said my status is "undetermined" and told the employee I had to send in a challenge. I just got a PA ID about a month ago and with the hoops I had to go through just to get that I'm pretty sure PA knows who I am. Any idea whats going on?

And WTF is undetermined? If they cant determine anything it seems to me like thats their problem not mine.

[Warners Surplus]

I am sorry to say but since the upgrade we have been getting quite a few "undetermined's" That is basicly a Denied but they couldn't find a good reason to make it a denied. They did however find someone that was somewhere near you Name,DOB,DL# etc. that has done something that makes it illegal for them to purchase a firearm.

So they are basicly saying that they are ALMOST sure you are not them but can't be posative so it's a "err on the side of safety"

Welcome to PICS answer of not being able to use SS# for posative ID. We will see more and more of this as they totaly faze out using SS# for ID. But what the hay, atleast they are coming around to following the law.

Fill out the challenge form and send it in BUT don't wait you have a limited time to do so. I would bet my last buck that if you don't send it in and quick, the next time you try to buy you will get a flat out DENIED.



Rich W.

[PisnNapalm]

If its screwed up that bad, could you not just give a friend the money and let them buy it for you? You don't need an FFL to transfer rifles do you? I would still get it straightened out though for future handgun purchases, and to keep your name from being tarnished.

That would be an illegal straw purchase then wouldn't it?

[J8300]

I still dont know why there is even an "undetermined" status. You have to give your SS# to get a PA ID. I showed a PA ID. Either I am on the do not sell list or I'm not. Since it wasnt flat out denied I assume Im not on the do not sell list. Why do I have to challenge an "undetermined" status? Is this status even legal? Nothing like being presumed guilty and having to prove your innocence.

This blows.

[Xringshooter]

tes151, IMO that would fall under the straw purchase as the person receiving the gun technically is not allowed to purchase until he has passed the PICS. Although he has not been denied, he also has not been ok'd. It's kind of a gray area but I would err on the safe side of not possibly making a straw purchase.

[ReefBlue]

If its screwed up that bad, could you not just give a friend the money and let them buy it for you? You don't need an FFL to transfer rifles do you? I would still get it straightened out though for future handgun purchases, and to keep your name from being tarnished.

You cannot be serious. I seriously hope there is sarcasm that I am missing.

[pex]

You cannot be serious. I seriously hope there is sarcasm that I am missing.

Undetermined is not denied. If PSP knew he was barred, they'd say so.

Let's posture this differently.

Mr. A buys a long arm. Mr. A sells Mr. B a long arm, having known Mr. B never to have met the requirements of being barred from purchasing or possessing firearms.

Mr. A didn't ask for a background check from PICS, and Mr. A can't. In fact, if he heard of this 'undetermined', it was second hand -- why should he trust that? He can ask for a background check through the PSP if he chooses to do so.

The UFA asks little for due diligence from private transactors. Mr. B's right to keep and bear arms has been questioned by the same government that wrote the constitution that protects that right.

Has the government scared you so?

[gnbrotz]

Undetermined is not denied. If PSP knew he was barred, they'd say so.

Let's posture this differently.

Mr. A buys a long arm. Mr. A sells Mr. B a long arm, having known Mr. B never to have met the requirements of being barred from purchasing or possessing firearms.

Mr. A didn't ask for a background check from PICS, and Mr. A can't. In fact, if he heard of this 'undetermined', it was second hand -- why should he trust that? He can ask for a background check through the PSP if he chooses to do so.

The UFA asks little for due diligence from private transactors. Mr. B's right to keep and bear arms has been questioned by the same government that wrote the constitution that protects that right.

Has the government scared you so?

Undetermined is also not approved. "Posturing the situation differently" seems to make it squeak past the legal standard. Intentionally buying a firearm for another party who has encountered this difficulty (as originally suggested) certainly does not.

[ReefBlue]

Undetermined is not denied. If PSP knew he was barred, they'd say so.

Let's posture this differently.

Mr. A buys a long arm. Mr. A sells Mr. B a long arm, having known Mr. B never to have met the requirements of being barred from purchasing or possessing firearms.

Mr. A didn't ask for a background check from PICS, and Mr. A can't. In fact, if he heard of this 'undetermined', it was second hand -- why should he trust that? He can ask for a background check through the PSP if he chooses to do so.

The UFA asks little for due diligence from private transactors. Mr. B's right to keep and bear arms has been questioned by the same government that wrote the constitution that protects that right.

Has the government scared you so?

The guy suggested doing a straw purchase.

Getting someone to buy a gun for someone who, for whatever reason, can't get one is illegal.

The government hasn't scared me, the guy is suggesting breaking firearms laws.

[Frenchy]

Undetermined in your exact words means

Sounds like you are hiding something to me.