PA PICS says "undetermined"

[GunLawyer001]

I can see where this would be quite illegal if we were talking about a handgun purchase, but as far as I know I ( or anybody else ) can buy a long gun from a private citizen without any background checks or FFL transfer. If this occured in a different circumstance where the seller and buyer were friends and knew each other to be law abiding citizens, would this be a straw purchase? Not trying to justify breaking any laws here, but I am a BIG fan of owning guns that the PSP or anybody
else don't know about. I was thinking that the straw purchase thing only applied to handguns because of the required background check.

If you have to fill out a 4473, and answer that you are the actual buyer (as defined on the form), when you do not meet the definition of actual buyer, then you are lying on the form, misrepresenting the situation to the seller, and committing a crime.

If you buy a gun then later decide to sell it privately, that's OK. If "later" is 5 minutes after you walk out of the store, and you sell it for what you paid or more, then good luck if your accomplice is trolling for friends to turn in for a reduced sentence in some prior incident.

People always forget the testimony of their accomplices when they ask "how could the government prove what I did?" Worse yet, what if he's wired, and they have your own words to convict you? The store has the marked cash, plus videotape, plus your signed forms, plus the testimony of your "friend". Time to discuss a plea, amigo.

We have DA's and mayors and governors who are desperate to show results in their jihad against "gun crimes". Any conviction will suffice, and if they throw your ass in jail for this conspiracy about a straw purchase, that will look just as good in the papers.

Philadelphia regularly brags about the number of guns seized. They never talk about the number of gun convictions they get. That's because they don't care about fighting crime, they want to have numbers for the press releases. Same with straw purchasers, if the gun fascists can set you up for a bust, they will, regardless of your amiable intent or some Internet wannabe's legal advice.

[J8300]

Your item was delivered at 8:59 AM on February 20, 2008 in HARRISBURG, PA 17110. The item was signed for by J BROWXN.

Well now the clock is ticking.

[XD45]

I can see where this would be quite illegal if we were talking about a handgun purchase, but as far as I know I ( or anybody else ) can buy a long gun from a private citizen without any background checks or FFL transfer. If this occured in a different circumstance where the seller and buyer were friends and knew each other to be law abiding citizens, would this be a straw purchase? Not trying to justify breaking any laws here, but I am a BIG fan of owning guns that the PSP or anybody
else don't know about. I was thinking that the straw purchase thing only applied to handguns because of the required background check.

I'd suggest you read the FFL form next time your in a gun shop.

[J8300]

Well its now at day 6. They have 5 days to get it mailed correct? Does anyone know what the procedure is if it comes back denied? I want to get prepared. I suppose if its not here by Monday, well past the 5 days and 4 mail days after that I will be having to call someone or initiate the next step.

[gnbrotz]

Call to follow-up if you want, but don't worry too much. I had a BIL who recently went through this. I knew it had been a couple of weeks, so I called to see what had happened. He had just received the info he was waiting for. Apparently in one place it says "5 days", but in a less conspicuous place says something similar to "various factors may require longer than 5 days to make a determination".

[J8300]

Call to follow-up if you want, but don't worry too much. I had a BIL who recently went through this. I knew it had been a couple of weeks, so I called to see what had happened. He had just received the info he was waiting for. Apparently in one place it says "5 days", but in a less conspicuous place says something similar to "various factors may require longer than 5 days to make a determination".

How'd his turn out?

[gnbrotz]

Based on my understanding of the law, and his set of circumstances, the correct determination was made.

[J8300]

Well I'm pretty sure I'm ging to clear. Sucks waiting either way.

Who would I call to check on it?

[gnbrotz]

No idea. I thought maybe you had a number from the challenge form or something.

[J8300]

Well the letter arrived today.

It says:

Dear Me,

This letter is in response PICS Challenge, Form SP 4-197, which was received Feb 22, 2008. (This is incorrect, they signed for it at 8:59 Feb 20th.)

Please be advised your challenge concerning the recent PICS background check has resulted in a finding that you are not prohibitedfrom the purchase/transfer of a firearm. A copy of this decision will not be sent to the dealer that requested thebackground check.

If you decide to pursue the purchase/transfer of a firearm, please present a copy of this letter to the dealer. The dealer is required to request a background check thru PICS and obtain a unique approval number to complete the transaction. They should advise the operator that the applicant has a denial reverse letter. Please keep this letter and be ready to provide it, upon request, to minimize delays for future background checks.

Question about PICS challenge process may be directed to the following PICS Legal Assistant: Dianne Buchek at (717) 705-4544 or (717) 705-4541 or by writing to the above address ATTN: PICS Challenge Unit.

Sincerely,
Lieutenant Gary L Shuler
Director, Firearms Division

I typed the letter up so everyone would know what exactly it says and who to contact. And so there would be no misinformation. I didnt end up getting a PIN or UPID whatever you wanna call it with the letter, but I guess the dealer I go to has to get a unique transaction number?

Anyway, as expected I was cleared. I still hated having to wait while being proved innocent. Quite the opposite of how the legal system is supposed to work.

I would like to thank all of you who helped. So thanks.