Recommendation for SW PA non-resident LTCF?

[csc]

Hello all,

I'm moving (back) to Fayette County, PA (in the process) from Illinois. I'm wondering where I should go (I prefer to do it in person and prefer on-the-spot service if possible) to get a LTCF issued to me on my old address in Illinois? I want to stick with the Illinois address for now (reasons below if anybody thinks it's relevent). For those of you experienced with local customs on these matters, I'm wondering if you can tell me what county might be best to use. Is Gary Brownfield easy to deal with in Fayette, or should I consider another county? I'm hoping, if G. Brownfield isn't the one, that it can be one of the neighboring counties. I know, Center and Jefferson seem to be most friendly, but they're a bit of a hike from my new home in Fayette County.

Thanks for any advice!

Scott
cscgenes@comcast.net

ONLY READ BELOW IF YOU CARE (OR THINK IT MATTERS) THAT I'M NOT GETTING A RESIDENT PERMIT

P.S. Okay, for those of you who are about to reply "Just use your PA address", here's the scoop. I'll be maintaining my Illinois residence for a year or so, because my business is licensed there. Also, I can get six months of Illinois auto insurance rates this way, and avoid some lawyer expenses on certain business/income/property tax issues. Plus, Illinois is pretty draconian about residents with out of state licenses when it comes to registering vehicles (I'm a contractor, so I don't care to register work vehicles out of state until the business is fully moved over). See, all these good things go *poof* when I surrender my Illinois driver's license to get the PA one that the sheriff is going to want for a resident LTCF. And yes, they make you surrender the other state to get the PA one. Lastly, as soon as I change my driver's license, I also need to change my pilot's license, because my driver's license is the required photo back-up document that keeps me from being summarily shot by TSA in the event of a ramp inspection. And that means the FAA is involved. And I promise you, any dealings with the FAA would make even the most 2nd amendment unfriendly sheriff seem like a cake-walk. Same applies to my Illinois Firearm ID card...my Illinois DL is backup, in an annoyingly catch-22 way.

P.S.S. Need the LTCF on-the-spot if possible because I have a camping trip in PA in March upcoming, and younze guyzes got bears in dem dar woods. Also, as I read the regs, if I want to bring my weapons back to PA with just my Illinois Firearm ID, I have to take a route down around the bottom of Indiana, or mail my weapons to PA, or take chances transporting through Indiana (as I read it, even unloaded and locked in the trunk COULD be illegal..but I'm no lawyer).

P.S.S.S. For those of you wondering why I just went into all of that, let's just say I've been on enough discussion boards to have learned it's generally just better to head everything off at the pass. :-)

[PisnNapalm]

One of the requirements for obtaining a PA Non-resident LTCF is that you first have a similar license from your home state.

PCS Title 18, Chapter 61, Subchapter A, § 6109

* (e)(1) A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle and shall be issued if, after an investigation not to exceed 45 days, it appears that the applicant is an individual concerning whom no good cause exists to deny the license. A license shall not be issued to any of the following:
o (ix) A resident of another state who does not possess a current license or permit or similar document to carry a firearm issued by that state if a license is provided for by the laws of that state, as published annually in the Federal Register by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms of the Department of the Treasury under 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(19) (relating to definitions).

[soberbyker]

Get a Utah non-resident permit good in PA and many other states, class and training available all over the country. Will not be on the spot though.

Threads on PAFOA on the subject:

http://www.google.com/cse?cx=0078815...&q=utah+permit

Utah firearm web site:

http://bci.utah.gov/CFP/CFPHome.html

[csc]

Illinois does not issue concealed carry permits (for that matter, open carry is illegal too, and in the City of Chicago and several other cities you can't even register a handgun...anybody want to buy my house in Illinois?) Therefore, I have the closest to an equivalent firearm permit available in my "home" state, per the PA law. Got that one covered. Thanks though! I appreciate the answer.

Scott

[csc]

Thanks for the reply. I did a search on here and saw the requirements for the Utah permit. But I don't want to take classes (which would be redundant...it's not that I do not believe in handgun safety), and wait for the mail/bureaucracy, if I don't have to. Good Plan B though! Thanks, I'll keep it in mind.

Scott

[HiredGoon]

csc... Gary Brownfield is a pretty good guy to deal with. I am not sure if he issues non-res LTCF though. Best thing to do, just call and ask on Tuesday. Phone: 724-430-1295. The female clerk that issues the license is nice to deal with as well... her name is Ricki. Ask for her.

[imperialism2024]

P.S.S. Need the LTCF on-the-spot if possible because I have a camping trip in PA in March upcoming, and younze guyzes got bears in dem dar woods. Also, as I read the regs, if I want to bring my weapons back to PA with just my Illinois Firearm ID, I have to take a route down around the bottom of Indiana, or mail my weapons to PA, or take chances transporting through Indiana (as I read it, even unloaded and locked in the trunk COULD be illegal..but I'm no lawyer).

Depending on where you will be camping, you may have another option. If you will not be camping in a State or National park, you can pick the red pill or the blue pill:









Blue pill: Get mauled by an animal or a criminal. Wait 45 days for the government to give you permission to carry.












Red pill: Open carry your handgun. Open carry is fully legal in the state of Pennsylvania without a license so long as you are on foot and not in Philadelphia, or in a short list of prohibited places that you'll find as a sticky at the top of this forum.

[csc]

Mostly likely State Forest (as distinguished from State Park, which I understand is an important distinction for firearms). I just prefer not to open carry at any time, legal or not. I feel that if someone wants to do me harm, they're probably armed, and seeing my weapon will simply shoot first and solve their problem preemptively. I might even make the argument, were I sufficiently drunk or not on a discussion board with people who would rip me limb from limb for it, that open carry actually increases one's overall chances of being a victim of violent crime, and certainly increases chances of arrest. Besides which, open carry is probably a sure way to get unwanted ranger attention, and as a minimalist camper there's simply no way I'm throwing back a nice, juicy, protein rich trout after March 1st just because it's a couple days out of season...

Perhaps more importantly (and more seriously), I need to transit Indiana, avec Sig, at least once in the next few weeks...good old Indiana.

In any case, I've enough motivation to take neither the red or blue pill on this one, though I will take the red if I can't find a friendly sheriff next week. Bears and criminals and Indiana State Troopers...all bigger and crankier than me.

Thanks for the advice!

Scott

[imperialism2024]

Mostly likely State Forest (as distinguished from State Park, which I understand is an important distinction for firearms). I just prefer not to open carry at any time, legal or not. I feel that if someone wants to do me harm, they're probably armed, and seeing my weapon will simply shoot first and solve their problem preemptively. I might even make the argument, were I sufficiently drunk or not on a discussion board with people who would rip me limb from limb for it, that open carry actually increases one's overall chances of being a victim of violent crime, and certainly increases chances of arrest. Besides which, open carry is probably a sure way to get unwanted ranger attention, and as a minimalist camper there's simply no way I'm throwing back a nice, juicy, protein rich trout after March 1st just because it's a couple days out of season...

Perhaps more importantly (and more seriously), I need to transit Indiana, avec Sig, at least once in the next few weeks...good old Indiana.

In any case, I've enough motivation to take neither the red or blue pill on this one, though I will take the red if I can't find a friendly sheriff next week. Bears and criminals and Indiana State Troopers...all bigger and crankier than me.

Thanks for the advice!

Scott

What would be the problem with travelling through Indiana, so long as you have your guns unloaded, cased, and out of your immediate control? As long as you don't stop, I believe Federal law protects you... But I can understand the concern. Some people will tell you that PA is the same way, but it really comes down to the fact that if an LEO wants to give you a bad day for transporting guns, he's going to do so no matter how many licenses and permits and signed letters from the Governer you have on you.

Good luck getting a LTCF, though. Regardless of whether an individual CCs or OCs, it's great to have the option to do either, and to be able to do so anywhere in the state. I know I'm constantly plugging OC around here, but I do so because so many people are misinformed about it, and/or just never consider it as a mode of carry; in PA specifically, the fact that OC requires less or no licensing at all to execise, provides an option in some special situations, such as yours.

[csc]

Well, again, simply finding a sheriff who will issue me a PA LTCF without me needing to change my driver's license to PA at this time solves the problem. So at this point, this is an academic discussion. But an interesting one, so...

Indiana (and Michigan, but I can avoid Michigan) is fairly unique in that it does NOT permit transportation of a handgun within the car, trunk or otherwise, loaded or otherwise, dismantled or otherwise, unless you have a permit to carry (with certain minor exemptions for which I do not qualify).

Now Indiana does allow concealed carry, issues permits for same, and is fairly gun-friendly. However, in an almost idiot-savant like contrivance of circular logic that only a state government could create, Indiana, despite their unique and wholely unnecessary firearm transport law, does not issue permits to carry (or even temporarily transport in a vehicle) to non-residents.

They do, however, reciprocate other states' permits to carry.

But...

Illinois (my current and for the next few months legal state of residence), does NOT issue anything that could even remotely be classified a "permit to carry". They only begrudgingly (and only at the State Police level) even issue permits to purchase and own, which I have of course. In some cities (notably, Chicago), you can't even do that...no legal handgun ownership whatsoever. So that doesn't help me with transiting Indiana.

However...

Indiana does allow an exemption for relocating from one residence to another. But that's a grey area for me because I'll be tooling down I-80 in my little sports car with an overnight bag and an Illinois driver's license, so relocation is a tough case to make to a trooper unless you look at the concept holistically for my case, and Indiana Troopers don't look at much of anything holistically.

Now...

Federal law, as I understand it, while providing for interstate transport of firearms if unloaded and in the trunk, is written specifically to allow state laws to trump the federal law. In any case, in a court case on this issue, it's most likely state law would prevail, since legislating transportation of firearms is not specifically granted to the federally government.

So...

By VERY strict an cursory interpretation of laws, I can't legally drive through Indiana with a gun, unless I can get this darned PA LTCF first.

You may be saying "geeze, this guy's a stickler!". To which all I can say is, yes, I am by nature (and education and career...it's incurable at this point). But more importantly, I have upset the gods of karma enough by this point in my life that if I tread in any legal grey area for any reason, I'm pretty much convinced I'm gonna get it. So I'm trying really hard to let other people be the test cases for our most learned courts of appeal.

Besides, again, one LTCF and I'm golden! Easily worth the legwork to avoid a 3 hour white knuckle no-rest-stop speed-limit-only drive across Indiana, or the numerous other problems associated with just mailing the darned things.

What do you call a paranoid who turns out to be right? One Unlucky SOB. :-)

Scott