Police training

[unclejumbo]

Quite a few of us on PAFOA are from Philadelphia. Not saying that translates directly to LEO percentages or anything, but even if we have a smaller per capita amount of gun enthusiasts than other parts of Pa, 5% Gun Enthusiasts of 2 million persons is still a larger number than 50% Gun Enthusiasts of 50,000 persons.

Given that Philly PD will draw primarily from that area and PSP will draw from across the state, most likely, PSP hires a higher percentage of gun people than Philly PD does. Philly PD is about 1/3 larger than PSP but will still likely have fewer gun people than PSP.

[Deleted]

The average police department in the Commonwealth has 8 officers. That takes into account the 7,000 Philly has, the 900 Pgh has, and the 4 or 5 larger cities. So there are a whole lot of 1 and 2 man departments out there.

As a result, the average officer receives little or no additional firearms training during his career. The average officer shoots only the 60 rounds the state mandates he shoot during annual qualification.

If you are lucky you work for one of the VERY FEW departments that actually cares about training.

It boils down to money.. no one wants to spend money on police training. The Pa. Chiefs are supporting online yearly updates because sending officers away costs too much. If you think its bad now with cops not knowing the laws it will only get worse.

Also....many departments also prohibit officers from attending training on their own. So motivated officers wanting to further their own education and skills are often in a position where they are truly helpless.

[Deleted]

Given that Philly PD will draw primarily from that area and PSP will draw from across the state, most likely, PSP hires a higher percentage of gun people than Philly PD does. Philly PD is about 1/3 larger than PSP but will still likely have fewer gun people than PSP.

Also take into account that 2010 or 2011 was the first year that nonresidents were allowed to test and be employed by the PPD. Change will come but it will be slow....very slow.

[capitolcop]

This does not prevent them from getting their asses to a range on a regular basis which many of my brothers and sisters did quite often.

[Metz]

Also....many departments also prohibit officers from attending training on their own.

That's ridiculous!!! How do they justify it?

[Deleted]

That's ridiculous!!! How do they justify it?

I have heard a number of rationales.. most are liability related, some deal with overtime or workman's comp issues for injury since the course is argued to be work related.

As for "range time" sure... anyone can go get some ammo and plink away but it's far from training for the average person if there is not a trainer there to identify and correct problems.

[Orive 8]

I'll add my 2 cents worth,

I worked for an agency in WA state that grew from 65 to 120 officers during the time that I was there. We had an excellent firearms training unit. Our officers were well trained with their firearms, yes a handful were not, but they were the exception.

Qualification was done on a quarterly basis with the duty handgun and longarm. Semi-annual quals with the back up guns. In addition, we had yearly firearms training which included live fire building searches, firing from in and around vehicles, firing on movers, etc….

We also had shoot/no shoot training using simunitions - scenarios varied, from domestics, to felony stops, to burgs in progress calls, etc….

As a Shooting Coach/Instructor, I was responsible for 1 - 2 squads of 6-10 officers every six months. During that time I was accountable for the firearms qualifications, practice, and training of my assigned officers. Those officers in my assigned squads would shoot 1-2 times each month in addition to the above training requirements.

I've been lucky over the past 26 years or so I have had the opportunity to train with many of the top firearms instructors/schools in this country. I have trained with many leos, and non leos too. Some were very competent, some not so much.

Yes, some agencies are lacking in training - for various reasons, but not all. I can say without any hesitation, that I would rate the level of our officers firearms skills as competent and well trained.

[capitolcop]

I have heard a number of rationales.. most are liability related, some deal with overtime or workman's comp issues for injury since the course is argued to be work related.

As for "range time" sure... anyone can go get some ammo and plink away but it's far from training for the average person if there is not a trainer there to identify and correct problems.

I agree with a lot of your posts...but that is a weak argument,

[twoguns]

It is my understanding that the average cop never even draws his firearm in the course of his/her duties....during an entire career. I think a little more training in the realm of proper restraint would be more beneficial to the public at large....especially how to read dog behavior.

While I worked as a RSO in Washington State, we often hosted various police departments for their yearly qualifier. Here are some of my observations:

#1--I watched one chubby little Hispanic women (obviously a politically correct hire) shoot over 30 rounds (single shot and check the target) from a bench rest position, with an AR-15 at 25 yards, before she actually got one round on the paper. The target was a life-size silhouette! I asked the CO WTF was the problem? He said she was worthless. lol no kidding.

#2--I watched the DARE officer from that same department almost shoot himself in the chin with his AR. I had to stop the line before it happened. The CO was extremely grateful for my keen eye.

I actually had a nice relationship with this CO and Chief Instructor. They were decent guys and would always allow me to run the course with them. They liked to admonish their team when I would out shoot 98% of them. This course was AR-15 and a lot of work transitioning to sidearm and doing reload exercises. I was shooting a .357 magnum revolver and still out shot them with their auto-pistols! Bill, the CO was an old timer. He used to bemoan the fact that they used autos because he felt the cops relied too much on the fact that they had high capacity magazines and 15 rounds to shoot if the first 6, 8, 10, 12 shots were not hits. His thinking was if you have only 6 rounds in the gun you would be forced make them count.

#3-- Another PD would cover the windows to the indoor pistol range so to not reveal to the general public how fucking inept they were. That department also had some of the most unsafe shooters I have ever observed. Pointing guns at each other while loading them, clowning around gangster style, and generally being idiots.

#4-- When we were open to the public for shooting, I often had cops come to shoot and as I would give my safety briefing (required for all shooters) they would interrupt and say, "I am a police officer". I would say, "so what and please don't interrupt me again or I will direct you to leave."

I have not been impressed with the gun handling practices of most cops that I have observed and I certainly would not put my safety in their hands.

[Metz]

I agree with a lot of your posts...but that is a weak argument,

I don't know... I tend to agree with that one. Plinking is one thing, but training is something else. I'm an instructor myself and I always appreciate when a fellow instructor observes my shooting and corrects me, when I'm starting doing something wrong.