Cutting deals at gun shows - how much is too much, etc?

[Cherokee60]

I have zero problem asking if someone "can do better". I've asked for, and gotten discounts at Home Depot, auto parts stores, the jewelers, even grocery stores. There is nearly always room to move. And I will walk for just a few bucks - any deal the seller and I make better stick. If they start adding costs on after we negotiate, I'm history...but I WILL tell him why.

The other thing, which is most important to me...I never lowball. I will make him tell me the truth - for example, if he has an item for $20, I'll tell him I'm interested, ask if he can do better. If he says he can, I buy it. If he says he can't, and he seems sincere, I'll buy it.

If it's a $20 or $500 item, and it's ALREADY a fair or good price, I'll just buy it. We all know a good deal when we see it. No sense badgering, when we could make a new friend.

My two cents.

[truecrimson]

I usually know the typical prices of things I am interested in from regular sources before I go. If I see something I want and the price is already lower than retail I probably won't haggle, I'll just buy it. I like those the best. If it is at retail or higher I will probably try to negotiate if I really really want it. If I don't want it that badly I'll just keep looking.

Also look at the dealers themselves and their tables. If all of their stuff is new, in the box, from well known manufacturers or from a single manufacturer, and priced at retail then they think they are in a regular shop and won't budge. But as someone else said even if they won't budge on price you may be able to get a free case, or mag or something.

If they have a mix of used and new stuff and look like they buy as well as sell then they will probably enjoy a good negotiation. Look for guys with cardboard boxes of loose stuff.

[mpan72]

I like to haggle but I try not to be a douche about it. At the last Oaks show I found the gun I wanted and it was priced decently. I asked if the dealer would take listed price otd and he agreed. I saved a few more dollars and the dealer turned over a used gun quickly. We both won on that deal so it is always a good idea to at least ask.

[Noah_Zark]

. . . At what point is an offer insulting (beyond the obvious, like offering $5 for a $50 holster, $600 for a $900 gun, etc.)?

IMO, you have to have knowledge of the product and the wholesale price of the product in order to make an offer that's not insulting.

Rules of thumb:

1) The markup on new guns is not as great as most people think, because most dealers never sell a new gun at MSRP.

2) Don't expect to wave a Shotgun News opened to a Centerfire Systems ad and expect a gun show dealer to give you that price on a gun. He BUYS the gun at that same advertisement price, and has to pay shipping, and all his overhead costs -- wages, payroll taxes, energy bills, phone bill, advertising, taxes, etc. at the brick and mortar store, as well as fuel cost expenses to and from shows, show tables at $40 to $75 each depending, motel rooms, meals, etc. for the two-day show. In fact, having spent time on the sales side of a gun show table it is always bad form to wave a SGN at a gun show dealer saying, "I can get it here for this much, and you have it $100 more!" The dealer I help out will respond, "Knock yourself out." Again, this takes us back to 1) above -- know how much the product sells for in the market, and know as best you can what the wholesale cost is, plus shipping, etc.

3) Dealers have much more room to move on used guns than on new guns. They tend to buy used guns at a price point about 50% to 60% of the price they have the gun tagged at. This does not mean that a dealer with a gun tagged at $500 will sell it to you at $350. That's what HE paid for it, and he needs to pay expenses and make a profit. What it DOES mean is that he could very likely sell it to you for "$500 out the door" which makes the gun price effectively $466.98, plus $28.02 in 6% PA sales tax (more if you're in certain counties), plus $5 PICS fee (That's right, PICS only charges $5 -- any dealer charging more is "packing" the price). Or maybe the dealer would be willing to do $450 PLUS Tax and PICS, a better deal by $17.

4) Relationships are very important. I just bought a rifle last weekend that the "private seller" dealer had $600 on the tag, and I said I was a serious buyer and simply asked if he had any room on the price because I didn't want to pay that much. Dealer said $550, and I said I appreciate that, but the amount I had in mind was $500. He winced a bit and countered with $525 and we shook. That's 12.5% off the original price, and $75 that stayed in my pocket. Could I have held out for another $25? Sure. Would he have sold it at $500? Given the show was slow, probably. But I didn't squeeze because I've bought from and sold to the same guy in the past, and he knows I expect a serious discount but that I'm not an "all or nothing" asshole about it. He also wants to keep on the good side of me because when I find certain items he's highly interested in, he wants me to go to him first, and I do.

4) If you're negotiating, be prepared to pull out the cash or plastic and do the deal. One sure way to tick off a dealer is to seriously negotiate, get the dealer to agree to a price, then say "I have to think about it" and walk off. If you are "comparison shopping" between two or more dealers and merely asking "what's your best price?", SAY SO up front. That is a real pisser to a dealer, who just invested sales time with you thinking it would end in a sale, and you walk the f__K off. He could have been investing the time in another customer that actually ended in closing a sale. DO NOT negotiate unless you are fully ready to execute the purchase. When you are ready to buy, then tell the dealer that you have narrowed it down and you are ready to buy, and what's the formal "best OTD price."
If you're just walking to the ATM or the car to get your extra cash, SAY SO, but it's always better to have the $$$ with you. The "Be Back" (as in "I'll be back") is a big "inside joke" name for those customers with dealers. The take away: Respect the dealer's time -- you expect him to respect yours and it's a two-way street; don't negotiate unless you are ready to buy.

5a) Likewise, don't waste dealers' time shuttling back and forth between two dealers with the same product doing a reverse auction over a lousy $5 or $10 each trip. That's a time wasting pisser, and shows you're a cheapskate looking for every last cent. Sometimes it's best to leave a few $$$ on the table; it shows you understand how business works and that the dealer needs to be profitable.

6) Don't try to buy a much higher-priced product from one dealer saying that so-and-so has the same thing at his table when it's a lower-cost model. Dealers know what other dealers have, and what the prices are. They spend Friday nights and Saturday mornings before opening time to case out the competitors. Don't be a bullshitter, and make sure you're talking apples and apples when comparison shopping.

7) Asking for a discount on a "bundle" of products (a gun, ammo, sling, mags, etc.) is another way to get a larger discount if the dealer is a motivated seller. There's more to work a discount with. It's best to ask up front -- "What can you do if I take T, U, V, X, Y, and Z?"

8) Summing up and sort of repeating on 3) above, the easiest way to "get a deal" is to be polite, don't be greedy, and be a repeat customer. That way, you get "the deal that keeps on giving." Each repeat purchase may net you some kind of discount, and if you make purchases from that dealer at nearly each show those discount savings add up.

9) Treat dealers and their staff the way you want to be treated. Not all will respond that way, but a surprising number will.

Noah

[Noah_Zark]

If it's a $20 or $500 item, and it's ALREADY a fair or good price, I'll just buy it. We all know a good deal when we see it. No sense badgering, when we could each make a new friend.

SUPERB ADVICE.

Rep sent.

Noah

[mpan72]

I usually know the typical prices of things I am interested in from regular sources before I go. If I see something I want and the price is already lower than retail I probably won't haggle, I'll just buy it. I like those the best. If it is at retail or higher I will probably try to negotiate if I really really want it. If I don't want it that badly I'll just keep looking.

Also look at the dealers themselves and their tables. If all of their stuff is new, in the box, from well known manufacturers or from a single manufacturer, and priced at retail then they think they are in a regular shop and won't budge. But as someone else said even if they won't budge on price you may be able to get a free case, or mag or something.

If they have a mix of used and new stuff and look like they buy as well as sell then they will probably enjoy a good negotiation. Look for guys with cardboard boxes of loose stuff.

I actually negotiate with my local shop also. I will usually just ask if that is the best he can do. I have saved a few dollars with him too.

[Shadowline]

granted, i'm not a dealer...

but i'll often refuse to deal with those who tried to haggle me. even for the listed price (post-haggle attempt).

so there sometimes is actually a downside to haggling, i suppose.

If a dealer ever pulled that on me he'd lose a customer forever. He'd probably also lose prospects as I passed the word on to other people. The only downside at that point is in his bank account.

[-JD-]

In general, I will always try to negotiate a price on a large single item or a bunch of smaller items.

That said, some dealers will not negotiate at all. Ex. In my experience "308 Ammunition" (or something like that) is one of them. I find their prices fair to very good so I buy from them, but if it is $501.20 w/ tax, you are paying $501.20, not $500, and certainly not $450.

I won't even try to dicker someone into "reasonable" pricing on an (IMO) seriously overpriced item unless it is a gotta have. In my experience, it rarely works - one of us is either self delusional or they know it is overpriced and are looking for an ignorant buyer.

[mpan72]

In general, I will always try to negotiate a price on a large single item or a bunch of smaller items.

That said, some dealers will not negotiate at all. Ex. In my experience "308 Ammunition" (or something like that) is one of them. I find their prices fair to very good so I buy from them, but if it is $501.20 w/ tax, you are paying $501.20, not $500, and certainly not $450.

I won't even try to dicker someone into "reasonable" pricing on an (IMO) seriously overpriced item unless it is a gotta have. In my experience, it rarely works - one of us is either self delusional or they know it is overpriced and are looking for an ignorant buyer.

I won't waste my time if someone has something priced way above it's worth. I see that a lot on classified ads too, I won't even make an offer.

[kimura]

If a dealer ever pulled that on me he'd lose a customer forever. He'd probably also lose prospects as I passed the word on to other people. The only downside at that point is in his bank account.

the dealer probably also wouldn't care.

dealers generally have rather finite amount of particular guns/items for sale. especially now, demand (for many things in the gun world) is high. so people would have little logical reason to sell a $1k item for 950 when they could turn it down and sell it for $1k to someone else, not much longer.

if the person has attitude, they might not be much of a customer. there are "problem customers" these days. many megahuge corporations realized this a few years ago.

"the customer is always right" has been by the wayside for a long time.

from my personal experience on here, almost everyone wants to pay appx 10% less than the listed price on the classified (assuming price point is relatively reasonable). doesn't seem to matter if it's cheap gun parts (ie: new moe stock @ $40), lowers, or a rifle. at one point, i got sick of the constant haggling routine and adjusted the prices, marking them up - figuring people would still want to haggle over the marked up 10%, resulting in selling for the original listed price. and it worked far too easily/sadly. the thing is, even knowing the psychology behind it, it's still something (people's mental weakness over wanting a 'win' over a measly few dollars i think is lame). people will be happy paying $40 or 45 for a new moe stock if they think they saved $10 on it... but not when the listed price was 40, to begin with (then, suddenly they only want it for 30). true anecdote. (listed at 40. tons of PMs, everyone wanting it for 30-35 [or less]. i changed the listing to $50. sold for 40+5 for shipping almost immediately after)

it's just a game i usually don't feel like playing on my own time. *shrugs*

point being - you can't please everyone, all of the time. and businesses/dealers know that. if someone seems like a PITA, they might just rather sell to someone who doesn't seem like a PITA. the haggling coin/sword has 2 sides.