More places off limits in PA by law.

[knight0334]

Someone at another site pointed out that casinos are now legally OFF-LIMITS in PA. I also provided info on another overlooked place(s), certain Department of State buildings as described in Title 49 of Pennsylvania Statutes.

So, as it stands now in PA - these places are off-limits.

1. Court Facilities
2. Primary and Secondary School Grounds and Buildings
3. (by regulation, not law) State Parks
4. Casinos
5. Certain Department of State Premises
6. Any Place Off-limits By Federal Law.


STATEMENTS OF POLICY
Title 49--PROFESSIONAL AND VOCATIONAL STANDARDS
DEPARTMENT OF STATE
[49 PA. CODE CH. 61]
Policies and Procedures Relating to Use of Buildings Outside of the Capitol Complex
[28 Pa.B. 382]

The Department of State (Department) adopts the following statement of policy announcing policies and procedures relating to the maintenance of order and security within the offices and public areas of the bureaus of the Department located outside of the Capitol Complex.

Department offices are located within the Capitol Complex in the North Office Building and in leased facilities in Harrisburg. The offices of the Department including, but not limited to, the Bureau of Professional and Occupational Affairs, the State Athletic Commission, the Bureau of Enforcement and Investigation and the Bureau of Charitable Organizations, are in leased premises at 116 and 124 Pine Street, Harrisburg. With regard to Department offices located in the Capitol Complex, the recent policy statement of the Department of General Services published at 26 Pa.B. 4906 (October 12, 1996) applies (Codified at 4 Pa. Code Chapter 86). The purpose of this statement of policy is to implement a policy and procedure, consistent with the Department's lease of those premises in a manner to best perform the statutory duties of the Department and its bureaus, administrative boards and commissions.

This statement of policy is not intended to circumscribe any administrative discretion given to the Department under any law or rule or regulation.

This statement of policy is effective upon publication in the Pennsylvania Bulletin.

YVETTE KANE,
Secretary of the Commonwealth

Fiscal Note: 16-12. No fiscal impact; (8) recommends adoption.
Annex A
TITLE 49. PROFESSIONAL AND VOCATIONAL STANDARDS
PART I. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Subpart C. SECRETARY OF THE COMMONWEALTH
CHAPTER 61. USE OF PUBLIC AREAS OUTSIDE THE CAPITOL COMPLEX--STATEMENT OF POLICY


§ 61.1. Additional jurisdiction over properties.

The public areas of 116 and 124 Pine Street, Harrisburg, under the jurisdiction of the Department of State and subject to this chapter, include the interior offices of the Department of State, Bureau of Professional and Occupational Affairs, Bureau of Charitable Organizations, Bureau of Enforcement and Investigation, State Athletic Commission and leased offices and facilities related thereto.

§ 61.2. Office hours.
Offices are open to the public for licensing and related business from the hours of 8 a.m. to 5 p.m., excluding Saturdays, Sundays and State holidays. Hours in which the offices will be open to the public will be posted. The facilities may be closed during any of these periods upon a determination that an emergency or threat endangering the public health, safety and welfare exists.

§ 61.3. Firearms and weapons.
The possession of firearms or other prohibited offensive weapons as defined in 18 Pa.C.S. § 908(c) (relating to prohibited offense weapons), while on the leased premises of the Department with the exception of State or Federal officers, in connection with the performance of an official duty, is prohibited. This prohibition does not apply to attorneys listed as counsel of record in connection with the offering of an exhibit in any administrative proceeding, if the counsel of record who intends to offer the item as an exhibit, has obtained written authorization from a hearing examiner to do so.

[LittleRedToyota]

2. Primary and Secondary School Grounds and Buildings

Steve_in_PA has pointed out that there is an exception for guns carried for "lawful purposes" in the school clause and that CCW is a "lawful purpose".

it does make sense. not sure if it has ever been tested in court, though.

[ChamberedRound]

Steve_in_PA has pointed out that there is an exception for guns carried for "lawful purposes" in the school clause and that CCW is a "lawful purpose".

it does make sense. not sure if it has ever been tested in court, though.

LRT, or Steve,

Can you provide a link to the post, or thread mentioned above? I was under the impression that although CCW is "lawful" with a LTC, it's not necessarily "purposeful" in reference to a school. I thought a citizen required permission from the school's administration for it to be categorized as a "lawful purpose".

As for casinos, I could care less if they don't allow carry there. I never agreed with Rendell's gambling plan to lower taxes, because the numbers didn't add up and no one could show proof that it would provide any real taxpayer benefit.

[knight0334]

In regards to the school grounds, I'd rather not be a test case. That portion of the law is too vague and could be construed by LEO's or a DA as off-limits. Federal law has the same wording or close to it "other lawful purposes" for some of their places, but again - I'd rather not be a test case.

[LittleRedToyota]

LRT, or Steve,

Can you provide a link to the post, or thread mentioned above?

here are two links where he mentions it. neither are the thread i was thinking of (which was in regards to voting at a school)...i think that thread might have been on glocktalk. however, steve makes the same argument in both of the threads below.

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/pennsylva...t=school+carry

http://www.pafoa.org/forum/pennsylva...t=school+carry

steve is a PA LEO and knows PA firearm laws inside and out. i tend to believe what he says.

still, i wouldn't want to be the test case either...could all depend on the judge.

[ChamberedRound]

LRT,

Thx for the links.

[Steve in PA]

I'd rather be a test case than dead, not that I believe there is a need for a "test case" on the school issue. "For other lawful purpose" is pretty plain, simple, cut & dry. Someone would have to prove that a person carrying there with a CCW is NOT exercising a "lawful purpose". And if carrying for self-defense is not a lawful purpose, then everyone doing so no matter where they are is now doing something unlawful??

And who said you cannot carry in casinos? It may be their option ot not allow them in there, however I live a few miles from the one in Plains and if I ever go there, I'll be carrying.

[LittleRedToyota]

steve...as usual you are correct. the law says what it says, and it is very clear and cut and dry.

i just don't have a lot of faith that the judicial system will actually follow the law.

the law also very clearly states that the PSP cannot maintain a gun registry...yet they do...and the judicial system shot down the challenge to it and continues to allow them to maintain it.

i'm just worried that the same twisted "logic" that the state supreme court used to come up with the idea that maintaining a database of gun purchases is not a gun registry...and somehow does not violate the clause that specifically requires the PSP to destroy the PICS application data after 72 hours (or whatever the time is) if the application is appoved...would be applied to (illogically) nullify the "for other lawful purposes" clause of the school carry law.

having said all that, the only time i ever go into an elementary school is to vote...and i do carry then.

[Frenchy]

And who said you cannot carry in casinos? It may be their option ot not allow them in there, however I live a few miles from the one in Plains and if I ever go there, I'll be carrying.

Much as I love your posts Steve, and respect what you say here, remember, You are ALLOWED to carry 24/7 as a LEO and no one will question that. The rest of us dont have that same privelage.

[knight0334]

I'd rather be a test case than dead, not that I believe there is a need for a "test case" on the school issue. "For other lawful purpose" is pretty plain, simple, cut & dry. Someone would have to prove that a person carrying there with a CCW is NOT exercising a "lawful purpose". And if carrying for self-defense is not a lawful purpose, then everyone doing so no matter where they are is now doing something unlawful??

And who said you cannot carry in casinos? It may be their option ot not allow them in there, however I live a few miles from the one in Plains and if I ever go there, I'll be carrying.

Steve,

Here is the casino law. If I read it correctly, only on-duty officers may carry there.



58 Pa.Code §465.14 states:

§ 465.14. Firearms; possession within a licensed facility.

(a) Individuals, including security department personnel, are prohibited from possessing any firearm or handgun within a licensed facility without the express written approval of the Board, in accordance with the authorization procedures as the Board determines, notwithstanding the following general prohibitions:

(1) Pennsylvania State Police assigned to its Gaming Enforcement Office may possess a firearm or handgun within the licensed facility.

(2) An on duty officer or agent of any local, State or Federal law enforcement agency having primary jurisdiction over the licensed facility may possess a firearm or handgun in all areas of the licensed facility except the gaming floor or restricted areas servicing the slot operations where that officer or agent is acting in his official capacity. Officers or agents possessing firearms or handguns within a licensed facility under this section shall notify the Board and the Pennsylvania State Police Gaming Enforcement Office of their presence in the licensed facility. Notification shall be made immediately upon entry into the licensed facility or prior to arrival at the licensed facility, if feasible. Notification is not required if exigent circumstances exist.

(b) A slot machine licensee may not employ off duty law enforcement officers to provide security related services on the gaming floor, in restricted areas within the licensed facility or in any manner in connection with the conduct of slot machine operations.

(c) To obtain approval for the possession of a firearm or handgun within a licensed facility, an individual shall be required to demonstrate to the Board that the individual:

(1) Has received an adequate course of training in the possession and use of the firearm or handgun.

(2) Is the holder of a valid license for the possession of the firearm or handgun.

(3) Has a compelling need for the possession of the firearm or handgun within the licensed facility.

(d) Each slot machine licensee shall cause to be posted in a conspicuous location at each entrance to the licensed facility signs that may be easily read stating: The possession by any person of any firearm or handgun within this licensed facility without the express written permission of the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board is prohibited.