Tokarev too powerful ???

[rovert97]

One of two things:

Douche bag range master or a particularly weak backstop.

I love the 7.62x25mm cartridge, but i do not love any of the platforms made for it. Nor do i love any of the ammo on the market for it.

With a modern platform and solid copper or bonded core expanding bullet equipped factory loaded round one this would be a highly viable police round.

Im pretty sure ther are some conversion kits available for the 1911 to accept the Tok round.

[EandGWZ]

Wait....what?

So no brass ejecting weapons at all then? Sounds like a Fuddite rule to me.

I may be wrong but these .223's are traveling at at least 3100 fps...at the outdoor range I was finding casing 10-15 away from my shooting point.

Surprised he even entertained the idea.

[Valorius]

Im pretty sure ther are some conversion kits available for the 1911 to accept the Tok round.

I've never seen one of those, that would be cool. Then again, a 1911 is not really a modern platform. I more meant along the lines of a modern polymer service auto.

Still, a 7.62x25mm 1911 would be really cool.

[mrnyman]

1960's milsurp warsaw pact 7.62x25 Tok can move up to 1600 fps. My CZ 52 loaded with S&B can get close to that, that 85 grain narrow bullet is no Joke.
When people ask me to recommend a Gun for a Fishing trip to AlASKA , its what i recommend.

That tiny bullet will scramble the Brain and heart of any Bear, if it can penetrate a level 3 vest you bet it will punch through a Bear's skull.

Sparking ammo? Thats dangerous in a range.

[mp517prct]

I suspect the range has a "no bi-metal jacket" rule. The issue was not the cartridge, but the makeup of the bullet jacket. A bi-metal jacketed bullet has a lead core, and a copper plated steel jacket, so it looks like a conventional bullet but the copper plating is extremely thin (usually less than the depth of the rifling in the barrel) which on a side note means bi-metal jackets will wear out your barrel faster. But, back to the original subject, most eastern bloc ammo, including new commercial manufacture (i.e., Wolf, Tula, Ulyanvosk, and Golden Tiger) use bi-metal jackets because copper is expensive and steel is cheap. To test this, take a bi-metal jacketed bullet an hold a magnet to it.

[daschnoz]

That 7.62Tok is a hot little round. We had someone at WSSA shooting a pistol on our indoor range. He was asked to take it outside. That little bullet was taking hunks of steel out of the backstop. It was so bad that we had a welder come in to fill the divots and patch the couple of holes. Granted, the backstop isn't much more than a piece of 3/8" thick steel at an angle, but it holds up to "normal" pistol calibers (9mm, 40SW, 45ACP, etc.). The 7.62Tok was just too much for it.

[rwb1500]

It was steel-jacketed ammo if it was sparking.

There is a concern with dust at indoor ranges possibly being at sufficiently high concentrations that a spark can ignite the dust. Same thing happens at grain elevators and metalworking shops with cabinet-type abrasive blasters with dust collectors. Dust collectors and dust ducting MUST be effectively grounded to prevent sparking and a ka-boom inside the dust collector.

The RO was correctly looking out for the safety of the range and the shooters present.

What the others have said above about the velocity and penetration of the 7.62x25 round is also true. I've seen 7.62x25 bullets punch through 1/4" and 3/8" cold rolled steel targets as if they were butter.

Noah

This is probably spot on.


If he was shooting surplus ammo of unknown origin, it very well could have been steel jacketed, and I agree with the above.

[Shodan]

I opened this thread with the preconceived idea that the range officer was a tool but I have learned a lot about the round that I previously didn't know. Maybe it was lost in the recounting of the story, but it sounds like the range officer didn't go to any additional trouble to explain his reasoning. Not that he had to.

[shiloh]

I've never seen one of those, that would be cool. Then again, a 1911 is not really a modern platform. I more meant along the lines of a modern polymer service auto.

Still, a 7.62x25mm 1911 would be really cool.

J&G makes a conversion barrel for a 9 mm or 38 super 1911:

http://www.jgsales.com/7.62x25-tokar...s.-p-5619.html

Not sure how sales are on it now that surplus 7.62x25 ammo is less plentiful than it was a couple years back. Still a neat idea though.

[cruzans]

Thanks all, great info, I've learned a lot. I'm going to re-consider my Tokarev, I laughed when my brother said it was going to be his night stand gun, I never knew it was that powerful. And that link to the conversion kit - has me going hmmmm, I have a RIA ss 38 Super - maybe I experiment with the kit? Anyone have any comments on the kit ? Guess seeing I'm the op it's ok to change subject a bit