Trasporting from MD to PA

[HapeeTreeFriend]

Hello, I've been reading the forums for a while now, and decided to register so I can join the discussions!

Anyway, heres my question. I couldn't find an answer to this.

I'm a resident of Maryland(damn communists). My wife and I own a Ruger P95.
We can't wait to buy a house in the beautiful state of PA! I am currently in the process of applying for a Florida ccw permit. I am doing this, because Florida doesn't require that you currently hold a ccw from a different state to qualify for their ccw. And PA honors the Florida ccw. I do a lot of camping and hiking in PA, and I'd like to start taking my dog on solo camping trips, and I'd feel a lot safer if I had some protection. You never know what kind of crazies you might run into. Or raccoons. haha.

Anyway, since Maryland is so bent up on their handgun laws, I'm almost afraid to even put my gun in the car to go anywhere. It makes me nervous.

If and when I receive my Florida ccw permit, will it be lawful for me to put my gun in its case, unloaded and in the trunk, and ammo in a seperate container in the back seat, and transport it into PA, where I would be able to carry it concealed? MD laws are so weird, and I'm pretty sure that unless you're a dealer, you can only transport a handgun from your home to a new place of residence, a gun smith, or a gun range. I can't find anything about transporting it to a different state where you can lawfully carry it concealed.

Any input on this would be greatly appreciated, and I apologize if this question has already been answered. Thanks a lot!

[Curmudgeon]

As PA honors a Florida license/permit you are legal once you get to PA. You may transport your firearm any way you wish in PA, in the trunk, on your hip, loaded or unloaded.

Two things to watch out for:
1) Your Florida license does not exempt you form the 1000' Federal Gun Free School Zone, and,
2) According to PA DCNR regulations you must conceal in PA State Parks. You may carry open or concealed in State Forests, or National Forests, or National Parks (but you must stay out of National Park buildings where .gov employees regularly report for work.

Since the rest of your post involves Maryland issues it might be a good idea if you acquainted yourself with the Maryland Shooters Forum, here...

http://www.mdshooters.com/forum.php

As you have suggested, without a MD permit you are restricted to transporting only to certain places and for certain events. Self-protection in Pa while camping/hiking is not one of those exceptions. This issue generates ongoing debate about the legality of such and I defer you to the folks in Maryland. They have also done much research on the topic. Ask your question down there and notice that they cannot agree either.

Your safest bet is to research carefully and make sure you are knowledgeable of the laws, and the consequences, and govern yourself accordingly.

Welcome to PAFOA. Keep an eye out for get-togethers from time-to-time. We often have MD folks joining us in PA to enjoy some 2A friendly exercises. And who knows, that Maryland CCW permit might be just around the corner! See these threads...

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=77986

http://www.mdshooters.com/showthread.php?t=77878


.

[HapeeTreeFriend]

thanks for the information! I will check out those links. I suppose if I was pulled over in MD, while the gun is unloaded and locked up according to MD transportation laws, I could just tell the police that I'm on the way to a range in PA.

Thanks again for the input!

[Curmudgeon]

thanks for the information! I will check out those links. I suppose if I was pulled over in MD, while the gun is unloaded and locked up according to MD transportation laws, I could just tell the police that I'm on the way to a range in PA.

Thanks again for the input!

Yes, you could.

You: (Headed north on I-83 in MD) "Hello, Officer, what seems to be the trouble?"
MSP: "I clocked you doing 61 in a 55, license, reg, proof of ins please. Sir, why do you have a firearm with you?"
You: (Knowing you are within the law and one of the good guys) "I am law-abiding citizen exercising my 2A rights, on the way to a range in PA. Gonna do a little target shooting."
MSP: "Excellent, Sir, what range?"
You: "Uh..." blink blink.
MSP: "Sir you have the right to remain silent..."

Perhaps it would be a better idea to actually make a legitimate stop in PA your first order of business. I know 2 ranges that are $20 per year to belong, seems like cheap insurance to me.

There is no stipulation about how much time you need to spend at said range (or gun smith, etc) and there is a very small difference in merely saying you are going there, and actually doing it. You may even find there are ranges on the way to your destination anyway. In my UN-scientific research, there are more ranges in York county than all of central Maryland. There are 2 well-known gun shops in the first 8 miles of 83 North (with very reputable gun smiths, hint), within a half-mile of the interstate.

Keep it legal, don't give 'em the satisfaction. Remember, this is only a Maryland issue. You are good-to-go in PA, and we are happy to have you!

[Greywolf]

thanks for the information! I will check out those links. I suppose if I was pulled over in MD, while the gun is unloaded and locked up according to MD transportation laws, I could just tell the police that I'm on the way to a range in PA.

Thanks again for the input!

Oh, crap! Didn't we just do this?

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-car...rry-phila.html

Start at post #27

[ray h]

Im about to cause controversy so anyone who cant think outside the box, please excuse yourself.
I think 18 USC 926A Interstate Transportation of Firearms, would apply.
I know the common interpretation of that statute is that you need to be travelling from a state where you may have the firearm to another state where you may have the firearm, BUT, according to the statute, it doesnt say from a "state" it says from a "place".
Wouldnt ones home in MD be a "place" where you may have a firearm? So if the OP travelled from him home "a place where he may have the firearm" to PA, "another place where he may have a firearm (with FL permit)" wouldnt 18 USC 926A cover that?

I know this has come up many times, and Ive read through the statute many times, I have yet to see where anyone has challenged the wording. What say you, interweb lawyers? What is the legal definition of "place"?

Sec. 926A. Interstate transportation of firearms

-STATUTE-
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or
regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any
person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from
transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to
transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he
may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place
where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during
such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the
firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible
or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such
transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle
without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the
firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container
other than the glove compartment or console.

[Curmudgeon]

Im about to cause controversy so anyone who cant think outside the box, please excuse yourself.
I think 18 USC 926A Interstate Transportation of Firearms, would apply.
I know the common interpretation of that statute is that you need to be travelling from a state where you may have the firearm to another state where you may have the firearm, BUT, according to the statute, it doesnt say from a "state" it says from a "place".
Wouldnt ones home in MD be a "place" where you may have a firearm? So if the OP travelled from him home "a place where he may have the firearm" to PA, "another place where he may have a firearm (with FL permit)" wouldnt 18 USC 926A cover that?

I know this has come up many times, and Ive read through the statute many times, I have yet to see where anyone has challenged the wording. What say you, interweb lawyers? What is the legal definition of "place"?

Already covered in the thread linked in Greywolf's post above. Go directly to post #86.

You can also read through this post containing about 2 years worth of research into this topic... http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...ly-report.html

Until there is case law or some further binding clarification, can't we at least accept that it is risky at best, and advocate for caution? Or are you willing to be the test case? I will gladly contribute to your legal defense.
.

[ray h]

Already covered in the thread linked in Greywolf's post above. Go directly to post #86.

You can also read through this post containing about 2 years worth of research into this topic... http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...ly-report.html

Until there is case law or some further binding clarification, can't we at least accept that it is risky at best, and advocate for caution? Or are you willing to be the test case? I will gladly contribute to your legal defense.
.

My mistake, but Im glad Im not the only one to question the wording. It would seem to me that the word "place" was used intentionally when they could have just as easily used the word "state".
I travel through MD alot, I would gladly challenge it if I found myself in that situation, the problem is, to get in that situation I wouldve had to place myself in another situation. I guess I could pick up the phone and tell the state police I am traveling from PA into MD to place X within MD where it is legal for me to possess my firearm, I am driving a red vehicle lic number XXXXXX and I have an unloaded XXXXX locked in the trunk. Yeah, its kind of hard to set this scenario up, especially since I would need the cooporation of the police.
The answer is I think this would be very winnable and I would be willing to be a test case, except, it almost has to happen by accident.

Then again, I think "for other lawful purposes" would be a winnable defense for the school property issue also.

[Curmudgeon]

My mistake, but Im glad Im not the only one to question the wording. It would seem to me that the word "place" was used intentionally when they could have just as easily used the word "state".
I travel through MD alot, I would gladly challenge it if I found myself in that situation, the problem is, to get in that situation I wouldve had to place myself in another situation. I guess I could pick up the phone and tell the state police I am traveling from PA into MD to place X within MD where it is legal for me to possess my firearm, I am driving a red vehicle lic number XXXXXX and I have an unloaded XXXXX locked in the trunk. Yeah, its kind of hard to set this scenario up, especially since I would need the cooporation of the police.
The answer is I think this would be very winnable and I would be willing to be a test case, except, it almost has to happen by accident.

Then again, I think "for other lawful purposes" would be a winnable defense for the school property issue also.

LOL... the way some laws are worded ought to be a crime in and of itself! We *may* one day see this settled without question, until then I just try to keep folks out of trouble.

[engine12]

Perhaps it would be a better idea to actually make a legitimate stop in PA your first order of business. I know 2 ranges that are $20 per year to belong, seems like cheap insurance to me.

Where are these $20 yearly ranges ?

Thanks