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Thread: Competition rounds
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March 5th, 2012, 03:12 PM #1
Competition rounds
I have been considering getting into some competitions. I was trying to find choices in ammunition for a Beretta M9 (9mm).
I keep reading that higher grain bullets are better, but then I read something else that says just the opposite. Is there anyone that can help me make a choice.
I imagine for competition you want little recoil for faster shots, that's what I'm looking for.
I'll accept any advice anyone can bestow upon me.DISCOUNTS - Steel Target Paint: beaverje10 (10% off) | Wiland USA: jbeaver05 (5% off)
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March 5th, 2012, 03:21 PM #2Super Member
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Re: Competition rounds
It depends on the type of competition. Bullseye requires the most accurate but this probably means a low recoil, low power round. Steel plate shooting requires more energy to knock down the plates. Other kinds of competition have 'power factors' that level the playing field between low recoil and higher power factory rounds.
Bottom line is - what are you shooting at?
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March 5th, 2012, 03:33 PM #3Senior Member
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Re: Competition rounds
Never have done any sanctioned competition of any type, but do a lot of testing with 9mm rounds and handguns, especially Beretta M9s and 92FS. Have you ever considered handloading? It's 100% my own handloads for every pistol/rifle/shotgun I shoot, and if you are getting into high volume shooting, you will benefit by not only lower cost, but ammo tailored to your needs.
Right off the bat concerning Beretta 9 series handguns is groove and bore diameter. Typically these guns have groove diameters that run .357"+, and shallow lands. In my experience, using jacketed bullets of .357", and cast lead of at least .358" goes a long way to improving accuracy. My Berettas like 130 grain lead RN bullets I cast sized .358", and really like 140 grain TC cast bullets. These bullets, especially the 140 grain have a very long bearing surface, and seems to help with accuracy. Can't really say I've had any truely poor results, using cast bullets of 100-158 grains... Sizing is the key IMO and experience.
Beretta barrels have a very generous leade/throat, so seating these heavy weights out pretty far, keeps pressures up relative to velocity. It is no problem driving 130 lead to 1200 fps+, 140s to 1075 fps, and 158s pushing 1000 fps going by my chronograph.
If you wish to stick to factory ammo, it may be worth looking for ammo that uses .356" jacketed bullets (Hornady HAP), or jacketed bullets with a hollow base that might allow the bullets diameter to "bump-up"/obturate to fill the grooves best as possible. FWIW, I do find my guns are most accurate with heavier bullets, but again it's reloads only, but there are plenty of 147 grain loads, and even some 158 grain if you look around. Good luck.
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March 5th, 2012, 04:31 PM #4
Re: Competition rounds
I've heard people using the heavier bullets because they could shoot it slower and still make the power factor they were looking for.
I think this mostly concerns IDPA/USPSA.. I am not sure if PSA Steel has any such rules, and I believe Cowboy action removed the power factor requirements.
It really depends on the type of matches you are planning to attend.. Until you are serious about it.. I really wouldn't worry that much.. Just grab a box of whatever runs well in your gun and get out to a match.. You'll find there are so many other things that factor into you shooting well than the type of ammo you are using.. That is assuming it runs well in your gun.The problem with shooting Chinese bullets is 15 minutes later you wanna shoot again.
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March 5th, 2012, 09:03 PM #5
Re: Competition rounds
Thanks for the info so far. Right now I'm mostly looking at IDPA/IPSEC... reloading really isn't an option right now based solely on the high startup cost.
Seems like I'm gonna have to get different rounds and just see what works best. Right now I'm using cheap russian ammo, but have some decent brass on order from Freedom Munitions. Will experiment at the range with some paper.DISCOUNTS - Steel Target Paint: beaverje10 (10% off) | Wiland USA: jbeaver05 (5% off)
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March 6th, 2012, 09:23 AM #6
Re: Competition rounds
I shoot IDPA and I reload. I've tried 115 gr and 147 gr and really didn't notice a difference other than price. 115 gr bullet heads are cheaper. I guess if the World championship was on the line I would look a little bit closer but I don't think it matters that much. I have noticed most of the top competitors shoot heavier bullets. I do notice a difference if I load less powder, but you risk you gun not running right if you go too low.
I think your recoil spring would make more of a difference than anything. Here's a great video showing the befefits of light vs heavy springs. It's done with high speed video so you can actually see the difference. Hope this helps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3UVL...layer_embeddedAny vote for a third party is a vote for a Democrat. You are the enemy.
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March 6th, 2012, 10:20 AM #7
Re: Competition rounds
There are power factors to be considered if you are going to shoot IDPA and/or USPSA (the US branch of IPSC). Minor power factor for both disciplines is 125 or greater. That is bullet weight times velocity divided by 1000. To make major the power factor is 165 or greater. Kind of a moot point for the typical division in which you would shoot. In USPSA that would most likely be Production, in which there is no major - everything is scored minor. (There is a scoring differential between minor & major power factors with the advantage going to major). Likewise in IDPA where you would most likely be shooting in SSP (dependent on gun weight), which is also all minor.
I used factory ammo in a 115 grain bullet load, for quite a while. The problem with 115 gr bullets is that they may not reliably take down steel - which is often used in USPSA stages. The IDPA club where I shoot is indoors and thus there is no steel (not sure if there is any steel regardless in IDPA), so bullet weight really doesn't matter. I have now transitioned to 124 gr loads for more reliable steel takedown.
I wouldn't be too picky with your ammo. You will go through a lot of it, so expense is usually a major factor in ammo selection. I, personally, don't like steel or aluminum cased ammo, but if it works for you, there is no reason not to continue to use it.
You'll find that both of these disciplines are very welcoming to newcomers. Best advice is to dive right in and accept the help offered. Usually new shooters will be required to take a safety/orientation session, which is usually scheduled about 30 minutes before the match starts. This is go over rules and safe weapon handling. Try it, you'll like it - if you really get hooked it is possible, with very little travel, to shoot a match every weekend. I currently do three a month because I still have a smidgen of a life. LOL.
Adios,
Pizza BobNRA Benefactor Member
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March 6th, 2012, 10:26 AM #8
Re: Competition rounds
If you can group the russian stuff and it fires without jamming or fail to feed or ejects.. It will be fine for IDPA, and USPSA.. (IPSC is a little different than USPSA, and not as common in the US).
I wouldn't get hung up on the ammo as long as it is something your gun likes and you like. Get out to a match and give it a try.
If you are planning to attend an indoor range IDPA match, just check with the range to make sure they allow that ammo. There are some indoor ranges that will have some restrictions on what they allow.. Like Double Action doesn't want you using exposed lead, only jacketed stuff.
This is good reading for IDPA and a lot will apply to USPSA also
http://www.nepaidpascores.net/misc/W...A_Shooting.pdfLast edited by Pkspawn; March 6th, 2012 at 10:38 AM. Reason: added link
The problem with shooting Chinese bullets is 15 minutes later you wanna shoot again.
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March 8th, 2012, 12:27 AM #9
Re: Competition rounds
I did a lot of testing with various 9mm loads to see what would perform the best. The competition I normally shoot requires accurate ammo. There are a number of rounds that will be fine 25 yards and closer. I did a lot of testing at 50 yards thinking that if it shoots well at 50, it will work at shorter range. I tested bullets from 115 to 147. The 147s consistently performed the best. They were the only rounds that would routinely group under 3" at 50 yards. At 25 yards, they were close to 1" groups. A plus is they make the power factor easier. Power factor rewards heavier bullets where kinetic energy (and recoil) rise at the square of velocity so to have a ligher bullet make the same power factor you generally have more recoil. You may want to try some 147s. Good luck to you.
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