Looking for more input about pre-emption

[Connal]

Well, I was just thinking about a few things, and I wanted to see if anyone else might have some thoughts on it.

Quite some time ago, I had a bad experience OCing at a local VFD gun show.

My thoughts here, and let me try to word this right. Who is in governance of a local, volunteer, fire department? Would it be the municipality? At which point in time does that mean pre-emption means that they can not tell me to leave for carrying OC or CC?

What about events on their property, they hold a local fair every year? They are having a gun show, and another member posted about it, and it reminded me of the last time I was there. And I just happened to think, that a local FD like that would be regulated, so to speak, by the municipality.


Just wanted some more feedback from someone who might know more.

[vicious]

Many VFD's are private entities that are funded via grants, fund drives and ambulance billing. Even if it were publicly funded via tax revenue, you could still be asked to leave.

[Statkowski]

A volunteer fired department is a private entity. There is no preemption, no matter where they may receive some of their funding from. The local government has no control over them.

If they want to be stupid about firearms, that is their right.

[vicious]

Of course, if you are carrying concealed, I don't know how they would find out.

[longcall911]

Of course, if you are carrying concealed, I don't know how they would find out.

If they do not allow firearms and if the OP knows it, then suggesting he conceal is bad advice in my view. Doing so would be wrong, and could get him charged with defiant trespassing.

[vicious]

If they do not allow firearms and if the OP knows it, then suggesting he conceal is bad advice in my view. Doing so would be wrong, and could get him charged with defiant trespassing.

And not carrying your gun can have worse consequences. Honestly, you will probably just get asked to leave if you are sloppy with your concealment. I've carried into many gun shows without issue.

[Connal]

If they do not allow firearms and if the OP knows it, then suggesting he conceal is bad advice in my view. Doing so would be wrong, and could get him charged with defiant trespassing.

Exactly. I have not been back there since my last experience just because of that. It does suck, not going to the local shows. But, my beliefs are mine. I'll sacrifice going places like that to preserve them.

Thanks for all the input everyone, was not aware they were not part of a municipal governance.

[pamedic]

Most local fire departments are funded by the townships, or boroughs that they serve. They are not private entities. Where you may run into a problem is when a fire department has bought a building with their own money and host a gun show there. Then I think they could regulate the carry of firearms. Almost all the fire departments I can think of are entities of the government though, where the municipality owns the trucks, covers the insurance and most (MOST not all) of the time owns the buildings.

[9orangeletters]

Most local fire departments are funded by the townships, or boroughs that they serve. They are not private entities. Where you may run into a problem is when a fire department has bought a building with their own money and host a gun show there. Then I think they could regulate the carry of firearms. Almost all the fire departments I can think of are entities of the government though, where the municipality owns the trucks, covers the insurance and most (MOST not all) of the time owns the buildings.

Sort of.

This boils down to "who owns the building?"

Many 'fire departments', as a statutory function of the municipality, are member-less apparatus and/or structures. My experience in this area is that the municipality owns the structure and the apparatus, and the members are a part of a volunteer 'hose company', 'fire company', et al, and are designated as the manpower provider to the department. Sometimes these 3rd parties own the structures, or other structures nearby, and the ownership could appear ambiguous.

I'm unaware of how things are run in Venango county, but I am very aware of how things go in the Lehigh Valley - it boils down to the property owner.

Which begs another question: In the case of, say, a borough hall that rents space in a strip mall; could the owner of the strip mall eject persons from the borough hall arbitrarily regardless of civil rights?

[rkrcpa]

In my 20+ years of dealing with Volunteer Fire Companies they have invariably been independant non-profit entities who receive the majority of their funding from the municipality they serve. Generally speaking, the local government has little or no control over the fire company operations.

This is different from cities like Philadelphia that have a full time paid fire department.