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  1. #1
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    Default Don't talk to the police? Not so fast...

    In my continual searching for information on what to do after a justified self defense shooting, I came across a couple of very well-rationalized articles on what you may want to do in the "aftermath". The generic "don't talk to the police" can have many unintended consequences. Here are the 2 articles that have changed my mind, literally in the last couple of hours, in what I would do if I had the misfortune of being involved. If you already knew these things, these are good refreshers, IMHO for all of us who carry.

    The first...
    Unintended Consequences of Silence
    by "Marty Hayes is the president of the Armed Citizens’ Legal Defense Network, LLC, holds a Juris Doctor degree and is a former police officer. In addition to operating a regional firearms training academy, working as a court-recognized expert witness keeps him busy."

    Article link: http://armedcitizensnetwork.org/unin...ces-of-silence

    A couple of things that stood out very prominently for me....
    One size does not fit all...
    "...because each self-defense incident will be unique, the question cannot be answered uniformly or with a one-liner. What you should do or say if you shoot a burglar in your home in self defense is likely different than what you should do or say if you shoot someone in the middle of a parking garage late at night during a robbery attempt. Why? Because the circumstances and events differ. Your decision to shoot comes in response to actions by the perpetrators, and events unfold differently during those dissimilar attacks. As you know, one size does not fit all, and neither does one uniform statement to the police–or no statement at all–work effectively in all cases..."
    After shooting...
    "...Wouldn’t it have been much better, to tell the police succinctly that you were attacked, that the man lying on the ground placed your life in danger, and you were forced to shoot to save your life? That the guys standing over there saw what happened? That after falling down, the assailant threw the knife in those bushes–as you point to the clump of bushes 30 feet away? Maybe, just maybe, the police will consider the idea that you were justified in shooting, and they will investigate and document all the pertinent facts surrounding the incident. Wouldn’t that be nice?

    What if you are hurt during the assault? Were you struck first? Is there a bruise on your neck where the assailant tried to strangle you? If you clam up, how do the police know about this exculpatory evidence? Having your lawyer tell the police three days after the event, “By the way, my client was assaulted,” isn’t going to do much good. It is best to turn the police detectives into your detectives, by letting them know of any injuries or other attacks to your person."

    The second has a great deal of details on what you should do before the police arrives...
    The Aftermath of a Self-Defense Shooting
    Guy Minnis, Director of Training
    HARD TARGET Firearms Training, "33 years of police experience with 17 of those years working as an Adult Investigations detective that has worked a boatload of shootings"

    Article link: http://www.hardtargetfirearms.com/co...fense-shooting

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Don't talk to the police? Not so fast...

    I think that's a good post and good points.... I know some of you guys here have been on the rotten side of the fence, but for now I think honesty is usually the best policy (not always, I understand that).

    People who start off a conversation silent, or defensive, or angry, or something are going to automatically make the police feel like they are hiding something or doing wrong.

    I want to come across as open and honest and cooperative so the police have nothing to say bad about me...they can't say "She was defensive" "She would not talk to us" "She acted like she was hiding something".

    I dunno.
    "Stupid people are ruining America." --Herman Cain

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Don't talk to the police? Not so fast...

    I agree to the extent that I would likely say: "I was attacked and defended my life I would be happy to answer questions after I consult an attorney."

    Done.
    FUCK BIDEN

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Don't talk to the police? Not so fast...

    Quote Originally Posted by cakeshooter View Post
    I think that's a good post and good points.... I know some of you guys here have been on the rotten side of the fence, but for now I think honesty is usually the best policy (not always, I understand that).
    All due respect, but I think this is naive. It's not that I disagree that honesty is usually the best policy, it's that prosecutors will love that you've been open and honest with the police prior to having legal counsel available to you. This is particularly true after the adrenaline's been flowing and you're stressed and scared and panicked and not thinking clearly about what you're saying and you're before a bunch of people with badges who you've been brought up to believe are the Good Guys and who will be on your side because you did the the right thing and all you want to do is go home and make this horrible day end -- when in reality, they're agents of the State taking stock of the facts and evidence at hand to determine whether you've potentially committed a crime and should be referred to the DA for prosecution.

    There's a reason that the Miranda Warning includes a statement similar to "anything you say can be used against you in a court of law." (emphasis mine) The less you say prior to having a lawyer present, the easier it will be for your lawyer to keep you from getting a new wardrobe, social circle, mailing address, and meal plan courtesy of the "People Of The State Of PA vs. You". After all, you can't "un-say" what you said to the cops. Once you've said it, it's out there, and it's part of the investigation.

    You're going to get a number of different opinions on this, from a number of different sources with varying degrees of credibility and experience. Some people will tell you to say absolutely nothing, some will tell you to say something along the lines that you will cooperate once your lawyer is present but that you have nothing to say until then, some people will tell you to lay out a basic fact pattern to establish that you're the good guy then Shut Up until your lawyer arrives, etc. This is one area where you're going to have to decide for yourself (hopefully in consultation with your lawyer of choice prior to the event) what level of communication you choose to have with the police, but before you do, you need to understand what the risks/consequences of that decision will be.

    I'm not a lawyer. I don't play one on TV. I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. This isn't legal advice. This is just my recollection of what people who know far more about this than I do have to say about it. Those who actually know better will surely (and hopefully!) correct me if I'm wrong.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Don't talk to the police? Not so fast...

    The reporting of the initial assault might be a good idea, but under no circumstances should you confess to shooting anyone. If it comes to trial, make them prove that too.

    IANAL.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Don't talk to the police? Not so fast...

    Quote Originally Posted by OwnTheRide View Post
    The reporting of the initial assault might be a good idea, but under no circumstances should you confess to shooting anyone. If it comes to trial, make them prove that too.

    IANAL.
    To each his own, but the first article above rationalized very well that taking this approaching, some depending on the manner, can turn out to hurt you and your case. We all know that being a blabbing idiot won't help you, but this article articulated that neither is shutting yourself up completely or behave according to some popular advices.

    Regardless of these things constitute legal advice or not, the primary take way for me is that one size does not fit all. Regardless of the approach each of us will take, knowing what can and can't hurt you in the aftermath from all angles, both practically and legally, will allow us to better act accordingly to your own judgment depending on each circumstance.

    Al
    "In a controversy, the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth and have begun striving for ourselves." - Siddhartha Gautama

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Don't talk to the police? Not so fast...

    There isn't a cut & dry answer for every scenario. What is best for one incident, may be the worst thing for the next. By default, you cannot incriminate yourself with your own words by not saying anything. But clamming up facts that will help you doesn't do you any good. However it is possible for the police/DA to misconstrue or twist things around too.

    If possible, always talk to a lawyer before making your statement. But as we all know, getting a lawyer to answer his phone at 4am on a Sunday morning will likely be impossible. They too have lives to live, and handovers to recover from.

    If you have the spare coin, put it down on a retainer for a lawyer. He might be more inclined to leave his comfy bed, the hot thighs of his hooker or wife(or both), stumble away from the bar, or drive in from his fishing hole to assist you at the location of the incident instead of the next business day.
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Don't talk to the police? Not so fast...

    my lawyer says do this when the cops want a statement:

    "Look, I'm a little shook up over what has happened, and I need to speak with my attorney before making any statements"

    then STFU until you've spoken to your attorney.

    period.

    the police have only one job, and they are NOT your friends.
    "Oderint Dum Metuant" - BMFH

    "Tact is for people not witty enough to use sarcasm"

    Note: any whingeing crazy that hits my PM inbox will be deleted without reply

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Don't talk to the police? Not so fast...

    Quote Originally Posted by JayBell View Post
    my lawyer says do this when the cops want a statement:

    "Look, I'm a little shook up over what has happened, and I need to speak with my attorney before making any statements"

    then STFU until you've spoken to your attorney.

    period.

    the police have only one job, and they are NOT your friends.
    Wouldn't requesting a lawyer be an admission of guilt and make you look guilty right off the bat?
    "Stupid people are ruining America." --Herman Cain

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Don't talk to the police? Not so fast...

    Quote Originally Posted by cakeshooter View Post


    People who start off a conversation silent, or defensive, or angry, or something are going to automatically make the police feel like they are hiding something or doing wrong.
    It's not what the police feel, that you need to worry about, it's the jury,
    and they will be instructed on your 5th amendment right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aggies Coach View Post
    Cause white people are awesome. Happy now......LOL.

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