What's your experience with a 1911 Colt

[wboggs]

A buddy found a Colt at a sporting goods store for a really good price (red flag No. 1 & 2 for me); I read the commentary in the 1911 Digest on a Colt 1911 model and reading between the lines of creative advertising language masquerading as a documentary, the gun seemed to get a "reasonably OK to buy" rating verses a good recommendation even though they mentioned the barrel rattling in the frame (Ewwwwwwwwwww). I'm a Springfield or Kimber guy and know nothing about the Colt but that the LAPD had it on the list of guns to consider but dismissed it without firing it once; makes for a big question mark in my mind, but I dont know the details.

What's anybodies' experience here?

Buy the way, if you haven't read the 1911 Digest, my twist on it is; if you took the cutsie/sarcastic conversation out of it, the book would be half as thick. Then half of what's left is creative writing amounting to advertising when you read the gun reviews. At least that's what I get from volume 2; volume 1, the jury is still out (didn't get there yet).

[TonyF]

The advantage Colt has over all other manufacturers is that of a base gun for customizing. This is so because the preeminent 1911 gunsmiths in the country continue to find that Colt's tolerances are tighter. Among many other things, pin hole sizes and location in the frame, etc.

Don't look at what LE agencies adopt as a guideline because attributes of the firearm are not the only criteria. It's support, warranty and maintenance, as well as pricing.

Kimber builds a decent semi-custom pistol but for example, there are beavertail grip safeties and then there are beavertail grip safeties. Kimber's beavertail profile is not as optimal or functional as an Ed Brown or Smith and Alexander.

The list goes on and on with respect to components.

From what I gather, Bill Wilson's shop has stepped up their quality and is turning out very well made and reliable 1911's these days.

Buy a box stock, no frills, Colt 1911 and you will probably want to have some custom work performed on it but in the end you will have a superior product. And you don't need to spend umpteen thousand dollars. Skip the cosmetics and stick to custom mods that will improve functionality and reliability and you'll stay well below $1500 to include the price of the pistol.

[Rule10b5]

While I (obviously) respect TonyF's opinion on the matter, I must disagree, in particular with the first paragraph.

I have had uniformly bad experiences with Colt 1911s. Given, I have owned only 2 -- a Gold Cup and a Defender. Neither one was particularly reliable or accurate out of the box, regardless of ammunition. They were both on the rattly side of things in terms of slide to frame. The barrel lockup wasn't bad (and it's more important, anyway) but it wasn't incredible.

The Defender developed a host of problems (too many to get into) after a few hundred rounds. I've spent hundreds of dollars on getting it fixed. I finally gave up and took it to EGW, who did a bunch of major work on it. And it still doesn't work right. I'm taking it back to them shortly. I have the highest confidence in EGW, so I chalk the issues I'm having up to a combination of (i) the micro .45 problem that everyone has; and (ii) just a bad gun to begin with. Not totally Colt's fault, but certainly 75%. After all, Kimber, Para, and Springfield seem to make perfectly operable micro .45's.

The Gold Cup developed trigger problems about 1000 rounds in. The barrel link pin fell out. And the rear sight pin fell out. And the slide stop pin was loose from the get go. I ended up selling it. I can chalk the trigger problem up to it being a Gold Cup and Series 80, perhaps, but there's no excuse for rattle or loose pins in a Gold Cup. I ended up getting rid of it.

I, personally, would just buy a high end semi-custom like Wilson, Nighthawk, Baer, or Brown and be done with it.

If I were having a gun built from a pre-exisiting gun, I'd start with a Springfield Loaded or Mil-Spec and go from there. I've never had a bad experience with anything Springfield (1911 or otherwise) and they're 99% series 70.

If I were having a gun genuinely built from scratch, I'd lean towards Baer for the receiver and slide. Or STI for the receiver, with a Baer slide.

Just my $.02.

[wboggs]

Rule10b5, Yeoooeeeeeeee, you sure picked up some character with those experiences. No doubt TonyF had a good experience and I have to say I was a little surprised to hear his commentary after reading between the lines of the "Digest"; then again yours is a pendulum swing.

I agree with you about either buying a finished, out of the box, custom or starting with a Mil Spec, especially since I pick up my Mil Spec this weekend that now has nothing to do with a Mil Spec but the big parts. I'll be posting pictures; I have seen it finished but not ready to deliver.

I thought I was feeling right when an air of sickness came over me when the guy called and said he found a Colt 1911 cheap (and it was cheap, I just dont remember the price). The Digest mentioned that Colts aren't very good fitting guns (did I say that right) the parts dont fit well which is your experience.

I guess I'll see how it goes for him; hopefully he's a lucky guy and got a good one.

[Lycanthrope]

While I (obviously) respect TonyF's opinion on the matter, I must disagree, in particular with the first paragraph.

Me too.

Colt's fitting.....particularly barrel lockup, has been very poor with recent models. Small parts have also been loose and the attention to detail isn't there like it was in yesteryear. With the advent of good CNC machining, many manufactueres are putting out handguns with tight specs that run.

Putting money into a Colt to make it right can cost a lot more than going semi custom to begin with.

Lycancoltqualityiswaydownthrope

[DCChris]

Maybe I just got lucky. I got a 1991A1 about 10yrs ago, never had a problem with it, never a jam, nothing. The only mod I made was getting rid of the Godawful black plastic grips and replacing them with some nice, checkered Hogue's. Other than a probable sight change sometime, I love mine.

[TonyF]

While I (obviously) respect TonyF's opinion on the matter, I must disagree, in particular with the first paragraph.

I have had uniformly bad experiences with Colt 1911s. Given, I have owned only 2 -- a Gold Cup and a Defender. Neither one was particularly reliable or accurate out of the box, regardless of ammunition. They were both on the rattly side of things in terms of slide to frame. The barrel lockup wasn't bad (and it's more important, anyway) but it wasn't incredible.

The Defender developed a host of problems (too many to get into) after a few hundred rounds. I've spent hundreds of dollars on getting it fixed. I finally gave up and took it to EGW, who did a bunch of major work on it. And it still doesn't work right. I'm taking it back to them shortly. I have the highest confidence in EGW, so I chalk the issues I'm having up to a combination of (i) the micro .45 problem that everyone has; and (ii) just a bad gun to begin with. Not totally Colt's fault, but certainly 75%. After all, Kimber, Para, and Springfield seem to make perfectly operable micro .45's.

The Gold Cup developed trigger problems about 1000 rounds in. The barrel link pin fell out. And the rear sight pin fell out. And the slide stop pin was loose from the get go. I ended up selling it. I can chalk the trigger problem up to it being a Gold Cup and Series 80, perhaps, but there's no excuse for rattle or loose pins in a Gold Cup. I ended up getting rid of it.

I, personally, would just buy a high end semi-custom like Wilson, Nighthawk, Baer, or Brown and be done with it.

If I were having a gun built from a pre-exisiting gun, I'd start with a Springfield Loaded or Mil-Spec and go from there. I've never had a bad experience with anything Springfield (1911 or otherwise) and they're 99% series 70.

If I were having a gun genuinely built from scratch, I'd lean towards Baer for the receiver and slide. Or STI for the receiver, with a Baer slide.

Just my $.02.

Both the gold cups and defenders are niche 1911's and by their very nature deviate markedly from JMB's original design. Yes there are examples that run but reliability issues increase proportionately in the case of small format 1911's.

And the gold cups were notorious for losing the elliason rear sight as a known problem and the trigger problems you experienced don't surprise me one bit given the nature of the gold cup FCG.

Rattle from a loose slide to frame fit are insignificant issues in a combat pistol. A handgun that shoots into four inches at 25 yards from off hand is plenty accurate. Very few of us can take advantage of the intrinsic accuracy of any handgun in a real gunfight.

Let me spec out a Colt.

New production Colt Series 70.

Send it off to a reputable and knowledgeable 1911 gunsmith.

Add an Ed Brown Beavertail.
Add an Ed Brown Extended Thumb Safety.
Add a good set of sights.
Add a trigger job.
Add a reliability tuning package.
Refinish in your choice of finishes.

Probably about $1500 total.

This gets you what you need for a reliable and practical 1911 for self defense.

IMHO this is a much better option than a Kimber or SA Loaded and allot cheaper than a Les Baer, Wilson or Nighthawk.

[TJB63]

Got to Go with DCChris,

I have a Series 70 Mark IV I bought back in the 70's -- Never had any problem with it and I'd say it probably has a few thousand rounds out of it. Back in the day it was the pistol that all others were judged by, times change though. The only Mod. I did was replace the cheap 4 finger barrel bushing with a solid GI bushing, other than that, It has been a Great Gun.

I haven't fired lately with the cost of ammo, But hey there's some gunshows coming up, Maybe I'll spring for a case.

Back in the days of Revolvers as Police issue a few States did adopt it, I believe the Illinois State police used back in the day.

[TonyF]

Me too.

Colt's fitting.....particularly barrel lockup, has been very poor with recent models. Small parts have also been loose and the attention to detail isn't there like it was in yesteryear. With the advent of good CNC machining, many manufactueres are putting out handguns with tight specs that run.

The barrel lock up is primarily an issue related to accuracy and because of your skill level you might be one of a very few shooters who could take advantage of the intrinsic accuracy increase from an accuracy job. For the rest of us it wouldn't make much difference.

Lycancoltqualityiswaydownthrope

Lycan,

Many of the top tier 1911 gunsmith's in the country would not agree with that assessment.

I challenge anyone reading this thread to contact Chuck Rogers, Bob Rodgers, Richard Heinie or John Jardine et al and ask them their preference in a base gun. They are unanimous in their praise of current production Colt's, especially the Series 70's.

[BUCKMARK]

I would take gun advise from the LAPD about as fast as I would take diet advise from Rosie O' fatass.

Colt makes a stock 1911 that looks and runs with anything on the current market. I have a 2007 production XSE Governmant that I'll put up against any factory 1911 on these forums. OR.... anyone here is free to shoot it until it jams up or you run out of ammo money.

Everyone will get a bad gun from time to time. The general deal is that Colt makes a great 1911. I have a Colt Defender that has over 4,000 rounds through it with next to no failures. I either get really lucky when I buy Colts, or a few people on the net get unlucky.

Colt never was known for their tight specs. Every gun they make except for the Gold Cup Target models is made to general military specs. I'm sure these specs have changed since 1911...but they dont go out of their way to tighten them up.

Colt's dont use a cast frame or slide. Colt isnt made in another country. Colt isnt full of cheap MIM parts that snap or crack. Colt dosent make their guns super tight then require a 200 round break in period.

For a 1911 under $1,500 I would go with a Colt every time. I also really like Springfield Armory....they are my second choice and I do own one. I like STI and Dan Wesson, but both companies are target shooter oriented and not producing "combat 1911's." I would own a STI or a Dan Wesson with no problems.

The guns I'm not real big on are the Kimbers, Taurus, Paras, Daly, Llama, RIA.

And to be fair...I hate S&W 1911's even though I'm a huge M&P fan. I just don't like S&W's external extractor and grip safety activated FP block.