Gun Show Rant

**GRIZZLYBEAR** · December 2nd, 2006, 09:41 PM

Friday, my gun "enabler" asked me if I wanted to go to a gun show with him next weekend and I had to say thanks but no thanks, I haven't been to a gun show for 5 or 6 years. He asked why, so here goes my Gun Show rant.

I went to a gun show 5 or 6 years ago (I think it was at the Expo Center in Pittsburgh) and was asked at the door if I was carrying a loaded firearm and like an idiot I said yes. I was told that I couldn't enter with a loaded revolver. I thought no problem I'll just unload at the door and reload on the way out the door, but that wasn't good enough for the door ninja he wanted to band my revolver with some sort of a spot tie. I am not going to let some inexperienced guard with a spot tie and wire cutters mark up any revolver I own, if I want them scratched up, I'll pay a master engraver to scratch 'em. While debating this issue with the shows promoter I watched three off-duty LEO walk in without having their firearms spot tied or unloaded and brought this to the promoter attention. I was told that LEO either on or off duty was exempt from the requirement. At this point I informed the promoter that he was not going get any of money and left the show with bank-roll intact. Haven't been to a gun show since.

I would have had no problem if management restricted everyone from having loaded weapons in the gun show. Everyone includes CCW permit holders, Leos, and the dealers who have bought table space. Having seen some examples of LEO and vendor gun handling, I'd just as soon have them with empty firearms, too. Not all, of course, but where do you draw the line?

The mere fact that someone is a Federal, State, County, or City LEO doesn't confer any special abilities. While some agencies pay a lot of attention to firearm skills, many today hire based on PC factors, and just let some minimum training suffice.

I've also seen the terrible gun handling practices of gun show attendees. I've heard the bang inside a gun-show, too. The one's I have heard or seen were caused by/or done by the vendors.

The only LEOs that should be allowed to enter with their sidearms loaded are the ones on-duty to provide security at the show and I don't buy the "always on duty" bunk.

Having a loaded and concealed firearm holstered, whether LEO, civilian, or what ever title the person uses is fine by me as long as the person is legal to CCW.

Who is the promoter to deny my rights?

What right does the promoter have to ask if I have a loaded weapon if they are not law enforcement?

They don't have a right to know, with me it's on a need to know basis and they don't need to know!!

The show vendors are packing weapons at the shows & they are loaded most are not leo's they are just gun shops owners/employees or someone trying to sell items.

This just isn't right in my book the promoter and the vendors are making a buck from these gun shows and that comes with risks. If the promoter has to pay more for insurance it either eats into his profits or all he has to do is raise the rates on both the vendors and the attendees.

Rant off

grizz

**phillyd2** · December 2nd, 2006, 11:47 PM

They have every right to ask whatever they want.....and you have every right not to answer.

Today we went to the Allentown gun show and as usual we were asked if we were carrying. I give my usual smile and said "I'm here shopping for a gun to carry". Which is true yet did not answer the question. They never ask a follow up question and I never volunteer anything.

Like most of our rights, they don't take them away as much as we give them away.

And never forget the option of lying

Once I even told a guy at a gun show: "carry a gun? me? guns scare me!"

**SGTUSArmy** · December 2nd, 2006, 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by phillyd2

Once I even told a guy at a gun show: "carry a gun? me? guns scare me!"

I agree, they scare me. If I dont' know the skill of the person handling it, they scare the living crap out of me.

We know the truth though, you are closet gunphobic.

**Siobhra** · December 3rd, 2006, 03:11 PM

There is a saying from the Middle Ages.

"Carry a false coin for thieves".

The reason for this is a false change purse to divert the thieves from your real money. You pick my pocket and get a pocketful of junk and I get to keep my money. There was much debate in the church as to weather or not that was moral. Or was it a form of lying.

When someone ask me a question that they have no right to have answered they may get an answer that is less than honest. I don't feel guilty.

Of course, you must truly think about when you use this. I only use it when I must answer someway and refusing the answer will only be taken one way.

**phillyd2** · December 3rd, 2006, 03:38 PM

Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and innocent as doves. - Matthew 10:16

**avizpls** · December 3rd, 2006, 04:28 PM

They have no legal power to do this, but private property rights allow them. Thus, there is no penalty for having a loaded firearm unles you refuse tyo leave when asked if they discover it.

I did the same thing as you the first time I went. I left. Since then, I've answered "No". Concealed means concealed in this case.

Another time I went with my unloaded revolver to try out holsters. Rather hard to do with a freakin wire holding the cyl. open! So I said, "No" and didnt let him tie it. The guy at the hoster stand was kinda curious of how i managed to "sneak in" my gun without having it tied.

**GRIZZLYBEAR** · December 3rd, 2006, 05:46 PM

I understand I could go and say I'm not carrying or leave the firearm in my truck, walk in. That's not the point with me.

The shows promoter and vendors are trying to make money off the "gun" and will not allow you to legally carry due to in most cases the insurance rates. They don't want to cut into their profits or raise the rates that a vendor has to pay for a table.

I figure if I and most other people would just no go. The promoter would not be able to keep the vendors and this would take an even bigger bite out of the profits and they might rethink their no carry policy.

I went to gun show carrying concealed for 25 years or so before this policy went into force and haven't to one since. Is it hurting me? No, it's hurting the vendors.

I am well know by the vendors and if they something they I would be interested in they call me so I am not missing out on any good deals.

Just my opinion

grizz

**avizpls** · December 3rd, 2006, 06:08 PM

I see your point very well.

To my though, while its wrong for them to do, I enjoy looking around too much to make a point by not going.

**Siobhra** · December 3rd, 2006, 08:27 PM

Gun shows do piss me off a bit with that. However in Philly is the Constitution center. A place built to honor the U. S. Constitution. They don't allow weapons. If you go to the web site of that Tax Supported center and look at what they say about the 2ed Amendment you will get sick.

They go to great lengths to "Prove" that the 2ed Amendment has nothing to do with personal gun ownership. Most schools in the city take the kids there for field trips. They are teaching at our expense the Brady Bullshit.