Legal to carry a friends gun?

[twency]

If your parent gives you one or you receive it thru a will do the proper paper work at a licensed gun dealer.

There is no "proper paperwork at a licensed gun dealer" to do for a parent-child transfer or a bequest of an ordinary firearm in PA.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6111: Sale or transfer of firearms

(c) Duty of other persons.--Any person who is not a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or county sheriff's office, the latter of whom shall follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6115: Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited

(b) Exceptions
(2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the transfer of a firearm under 20 Pa.C.S. Ch. 21 (relating to intestate succession) or by bequest if the individual receiving the firearm is not precluded from owning or possessing a firearm under section 6105.

[LegalCarry]

There is no "proper paperwork at a licensed gun dealer" to do for a parent-child transfer or a bequest of an ordinary firearm in PA.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6111: Sale or transfer of firearms


18 Pa.C.S. § 6115: Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited

So I ask for the interpretation of transfer to child by parent. I give my son a handgun legally owned by myself. If we do not do any paperwork at a FFL then the weapon is still in my name and he would be unable to sell to another through a FFL? Who ultimately is responsible for a weapon legally transferred parent to child if ownership reverts to the registered owner?

[BimmerJon]

So I ask for the interpretation of transfer to child by parent. I give my son a handgun legally owned by myself. If we do not do any paperwork at a FFL then the weapon is still in my name and he would be unable to sell to another through a FFL? Who ultimately is responsible for a weapon legally transferred parent to child if ownership reverts to the registered owner?

There is no registration in PA. Even though the state police break the law and fail to destroy sales records within 72 hours of sale. Even though state police break the law and use an incomplete sales database as a firearms registry doesn't change the fact that firearms are not registered to people in your case.

Give it to your son and it's his, end of requirements. If he transfers it later to someone else, ownership is irrelevant. PICS is run on the buyer and the gun is not important.

[Greywolf]

So I ask for the interpretation of transfer to child by parent. I give my son a handgun legally owned by myself. If we do not do any paperwork at a FFL then the weapon is still in my name and he would be unable to sell to another through a FFL? Who ultimately is responsible for a weapon legally transferred parent to child if ownership reverts to the registered owner?

Catch-22.

This is the joy of having the State Police maintain a "database" that is not a "registry" -- but is treated like a registry by the state and local police. The judge who ruled that this quasi-registry is not a registry and is therefore legal should be tarred and feathered.

The legal answer to the last sentence above is that the question does not apply because, if you give a firearm to your offspring, it becomes his/her firearm and ownership does not revert to you just because the state's database doesn't happen to include a record of the [completely legal] gift.

Unfortunately, what happens in the real world isn't as clean as the law should make it.

[Glock9mm]

Catch-22.

This is the joy of having the State Police maintain a "database" that is not a "registry" -- but is treated like a registry by the state and local police. The judge who ruled that this quasi-registry is not a registry and is therefore legal should be tarred and feathered.

The legal answer to the last sentence above is that the question does not apply because, if you give a firearm to your offspring, it becomes his/her firearm and ownership does not revert to you just because the state's database doesn't happen to include a record of the [completely legal] gift.

Unfortunately, what happens in the real world isn't as clean as the law should make it.

I think the sad truth of the matter is the truth is really only what you can afford to spend on it if you have an issue. And it won't be anywhere near what the state/fed will spend your money on to prove you wrong. I transfer everything I sell, even to family members and refuse to lend a firearm to anyone that I am not physically watching. I don't have the money to fight it!

[twency]

I think the sad truth of the matter is the truth is really only what you can afford to spend on it if you have an issue. And it won't be anywhere near what the state/fed will spend your money on to prove you wrong. I transfer everything I sell, even to family members and refuse to lend a firearm to anyone that I am not physically watching. I don't have the money to fight it!

Just to clarify, are you saying you either pay an FFL or go to the sheriff every time you transfer a firearm, even in cases where state laws says there's no need to?

[Glock9mm]

Just to clarify, are you saying you either pay an FFL or go to the sheriff every time you transfer a firearm, even in cases where state laws says there's no need to?

Yes, that is what I am saying. Everything goes through the shop. In the past 10 years, it has only happened 6 times, and 4 of those guns went to family.

[GunLawyer001]

Yes, that is what I am saying. Everything goes through the shop. In the past 10 years, it has only happened 6 times, and 4 of those guns went to family.

That's the smart play, it's why we wear seatbelts and buy insurance. The cost of doing transfers is nothing compared to the cost of responding to police inquiries, since I recommend hiring counsel whenever it appears that Something Has Gone Horribly Wrong with a gun that their theoretically-unlawful Database tracks back to you.

The real solution would be for the Governor to instruct the PSP to abandon the Database, with appropriate changes to the UFA. I would like to see some sort of paper trail to allow stolen guns to be flagged, but there's a huge difference between the police being able to visit an FFL and find out who has your stolen handgun, and having a central instantly-accessible database that is being misused and the PSP KNOWS it's being misused.

But for now, the hassle of your son's wife being caught carrying "your" handgun is more daunting than the burden of you using an FFL to transfer from you to your son or to his wife. It shouldn't be that way, but we live in the world that is, not the world as it should be.

On a side note, I make no money at all from people who listen to my advice on this, because there likely won't be legal problems. For those who take a principled stand and ignore my advice, I will be pleased to assist and rescue you from any troubles; my contact info is readily available, office hours are by appointment. And I will try not to say "I told you so".

[Glock9mm]

I always thought that way too, for what I spend on guns the $25 to transfer is really nothing, if they charge me at all. I hate doing it, like buying insurance, but I can't imagine the other end.