DCFS carry rules

[nick060200]

first off let me say hello to everyone. was referred here by a friend. i like a local based forum to discuss things.
I am a member of Delaware county field and stream, it's a great organization, great place to take family and friends. well worth the annual fee. i do however have a gripe with some of the rules, one being the fact you cannot carry open and the other being you are not "suppose" to carry concealed. basically anything were a pistol is in a holster on your hip. I was told this by one of the range officers on the weekend. this is a gun range for crying out loud and we have permits to carry in this fashion all over the state. i cannot for the life of me figure the logic in this at all. i know it's a private organization and they can make the rules but you would think the person in charge would have a respect for the laws of the state and allow this at the facility.
One of the rules on the pistol range is you cannot draw from the holster, fine. I understand this for safety reasons but i'd like to think that a person who is licensed to carry has enough competence to draw a weapon safely, put it on his or her table on the lane they are shooting and commence firing when ready. make a rule change to something along the lines of: cannot do quick draws from the holster, or something like that.
I also know that they have inner clubs where "some" of this stuff is aloud at matches from talking with other members. but for this to not be aloud to everyone all the time seems wrong to me.
I saw a video of a guy shooting his own leg while doing a "quick" draw from a holster. I'm sure this is what is trying to be prevented. re-word the rules and allow the gun to be drawn then put on the table and then picked up and fired. allow pistols to be carried in a holster! these are just some of the rules that seem very elementary to me. i also want to rant about the 5 rounds at a time rule, but i'll refrain.
I know there are members on this site that go here, please inform me why you think i'm wrong, or if you agree let me know. maybe if enough people start saying something about it things will change.
if you read this whole thing and forgot the very first statement i wrote about the organization please re-read.
Nick

[Delcozrt]

Welcome and ill just state that I agree.

[soberbyker]

first off let me say hello to everyone. was referred here by a friend. i like a local based forum to discuss things.
I am a member of Delaware county field and stream, it's a great organization, great place to take family and friends. well worth the annual fee.

Welcome to the forum. DCFS is a fine place, the fee is very affordable, especially when you consider a family membership is only $150 and includes all of your kids AND grandkids under 18 years old.

i do however have a gripe with some of the rules, one being the fact you cannot carry open and the other being you are not "suppose" to carry concealed. basically anything were a pistol is in a holster on your hip. I was told this by one of the range officers on the weekend. this is a gun range for crying out loud and we have permits to carry in this fashion all over the state. i cannot for the life of me figure the logic in this at all. i know it's a private organization and they can make the rules but you would think the person in charge would have a respect for the laws of the state and allow this at the facility.

This topic comes up frequently here on the PAFOA forum. Unlike most people who just come here and bitch about the rules, I have looked into them and asked people "in the know" how and why they came about.

Basically what I was told is this, DCFS is a sportsman's club, not a gun club. Archery and youth fishing tournaments are part of the club as well. There have been times in the past that two members got into an argument in the clubhouse and drew on each other. This is the reason for the no guns in the clubhouse. Some rules are dictated by insurance requirements, and the area the club is located in. And frankly, some of the rules are just old and no one has attempted to bring about a more modern approach.

I have also asked about how to change the rule of no carry and have started the process via the proper channels, honestly I don't expect it to go anywhere but at least I'm doing more than bitching about it on an internet forum. I haven't met anyone else from this forum at any of the meetings.

One of the rules on the pistol range is you cannot draw from the holster, fine. I understand this for safety reasons but i'd like to think that a person who is licensed to carry has enough competence to draw a weapon safely, put it on his or her table on the lane they are shooting and commence firing when ready. make a rule change to something along the lines of: cannot do quick draws from the holster, or something like that.
I also know that they have inner clubs where "some" of this stuff is aloud at matches from talking with other members. but for this to not be aloud to everyone all the time seems wrong to me.

There aren't any "inner clubs" however most of the ranges do hold special matches where some of the rules are suspended. These matches are open to anyone.

As for as licensed carrier being competent enough, how do you figure that? No training is required, hell no gun experience at all is required to get a Pennsylvania license, just a clean record and no drug or mental problems.

I saw a video of a guy shooting his own leg while doing a "quick" draw from a holster. I'm sure this is what is trying to be prevented. re-word the rules and allow the gun to be drawn then put on the table and then picked up and fired. allow pistols to be carried in a holster! these are just some of the rules that seem very elementary to me. i also want to rant about the 5 rounds at a time rule, but i'll refrain.

Not to long ago you could only shoot one round at a time, then 3, now 5. Again changes can and sometimes do happen, but only if people get involved and try to help the changes along. Remember, what may be elementary to you can be completely foreign to someone else.

I know there are members on this site that go here, please inform me why you think i'm wrong, or if you agree let me know. maybe if enough people start saying something about it things will change.
if you read this whole thing and forgot the very first statement i wrote about the organization please re-read.
Nick

You hit on the most important element though, it's a private club and as such can make their own rules. The thing is, the rules are made by the members who get involved.
As I see it, life is filled with times for compromise, for me the benefits of the club far outweigh any rules I may dislike, so I accepted the compromise, but I've also got involved with the club to try and make some of the need for it disappear.

[nick060200]

i've seen you at the club(profile pic) , you were there during my orientation. let me say i'm glad you are trying to change some things.

I am "bitching" on an internet forum which is true but to be honest i have no other way of getting heard, other than to suggest this to senior members at the club. I am new and i don't think i would be taken very seriously. there seems to be a stigma upon new members, just walking into the club house you get that feeling. anyway, getting involved with the club would be very difficult for me and my work situation. so i thought that this would be a great place to start.

[bigandy1966]

As for the No live fire draw drills on the line, If you go to the handgun range at DCFS, look at the metal rail under the benches. I do not want a guy doing his fast draw live fire drills anywhere near me. if you are going to do draws then you will have to stand off the line, at least an arms length to the rear of the guy shooting next to you.Think about that wile you look at the rail. Do you really think that a crowded range is the right place for those types of drills? I don]t care if you are better trained than Elmer Kieth, I wouldn't know you from Adam. How do I know who is proficient at fast draws and who is going to put a .45 in my foot?

Practice draw and fire with a snap cap, in your basement, with no one else home. They have ones that flash a laser now so you can see where you would hit the target. Cheaper than 5 boxes of ammo.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/69986-1.html

Go to a 3 gun, the matches are set up for those shooting scenarios, and there is one shooter on the course at a time. . By all means take a more active role in club policy, but think about that rail, I have a pretty god idea that it is part of the reason behind that particular rule


My opinion of course

[soberbyker]

i've seen you at the club(profile pic) , you were there during my orientation. let me say i'm glad you are trying to change some things.

I am "bitching" on an internet forum which is true but to be honest i have no other way of getting heard, other than to suggest this to senior members at the club. I am new and i don't think i would be taken very seriously. there seems to be a stigma upon new members, just walking into the club house you get that feeling. anyway, getting involved with the club would be very difficult for me and my work situation. so i thought that this would be a great place to start.

Anywhere new is going to be a little intimidating. I'm new too, only been a member for a year and a half. I didn't let anyone scare me away. When I brought up the carry thing there was a lot of that'll never happen but I'm going through the process anyway. I know for sure it'll never happen if no one tries. I agree with big Andy about the holster draw though. The pistol range is set up for bulls eye shooting, not self defense. Like I said it's a sportsman club.

As for the internet bitching sorry if I was a little harsh on ya. I just get tired of a new thread bitching about DCFS rules popping up every month or so. It's one thing to bitch and try to do something, it's another to just run the place down without any effort to change things.

Club meetings are Wednesday nights at 8, there are some I can't make when I'm on night work, I make the ones I can. I let folks see me around, I talk to people, get to know who's who, let them know who I am.

Maybe things will change, maybe they won't, either way I'm not going to let it stop me from enjoying what the club does has to offer. It's a nice place.

.

[NRA Recruiter]

There was a "sportsmans" club near my old house. Hundreds of acres of land, fishing, archery, hunting, trap, skeep, rifle range, pistol range, cool club house, etc.. I wasn't a member but I knew many. I was chatting with one of their board members one day and he was complaining that they were having trouble recruiting new members.

How about matches? The response was that they have a rifle match and a pistol match once a year. Open to non-members? Oh no.

How about a regular schedule of matches like falling plate matches or bowling pin. After all they are very popular and make them open to outsiders. Couldn't do that because you can only shoot at paper targets then there is that pesky problem of non-members wanting to use the restrooms in the clubhouse.

I belonged to another club that had a waiting list for membership because we had a regular match schedule and allowed non-members to shoot in matches.

You have to welcome newcomers and allow for changes in rules to keep up with the times or the organization will start to wither.

[soberbyker]

There was a "sportsmans" club near my old house. Hundreds of acres of land, fishing, archery, hunting, trap, skeep, rifle range, pistol range, cool club house, etc.. I wasn't a member but I knew many. I was chatting with one of their board members one day and he was complaining that they were having trouble recruiting new members.

How about matches? The response was that they have a rifle match and a pistol match once a year. Open to non-members? Oh no.

How about a regular schedule of matches like falling plate matches or bowling pin. After all they are very popular and make them open to outsiders. Couldn't do that because you can only shoot at paper targets then there is that pesky problem of non-members wanting to use the restrooms in the clubhouse.

I belonged to another club that had a waiting list for membership because we had a regular match schedule and allowed non-members to shoot in matches.

You have to welcome newcomers and allow for changes in rules to keep up with the times or the organization will start to wither.

We have most of what you asked for, even non members allowed to shoot at most matches (AFAIK), the rules, they have changed, albeit slow. As for withering, not much choice around this area, we get about 50 folks each week at the orientation walk through. We are not lacking membership, what we do lack is involvement in the things that make the club tick. I see the same dozen members at the meetings, we have around 4000 members.

.

[nick060200]

As for the No live fire draw drills on the line, If you go to the handgun range at DCFS, look at the metal rail under the benches. I do not want a guy doing his fast draw live fire drills anywhere near me. if you are going to do draws then you will have to stand off the line, at least an arms length to the rear of the guy shooting next to you.Think about that wile you look at the rail. Do you really think that a crowded range is the right place for those types of drills? I don]t care if you are better trained than Elmer Kieth, I wouldn't know you from Adam. How do I know who is proficient at fast draws and who is going to put a .45 in my foot?

Practice draw and fire with a snap cap, in your basement, with no one else home. They have ones that flash a laser now so you can see where you would hit the target. Cheaper than 5 boxes of ammo.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/69986-1.html

Go to a 3 gun, the matches are set up for those shooting scenarios, and there is one shooter on the course at a time. . By all means take a more active role in club policy, but think about that rail, I have a pretty god idea that it is part of the reason behind that particular rule


My opinion of course

you make an excellent point and i agree, i wasn't bashing this rule per say. what i was trying to get across is this: i bet you have a lot of guys that have a carry permit that go here, they carry onto the range and want to be proficient with the weapon they carry. why not let them draw the gun from the holster which they carried from outside the club, place it on the table before firing and then take both hands off the weapon, then pick the weapon up and begin to fire. when they are done they can load and re-holster and be on there way to where ever else they would like to go.

Im not trying to be the guy that posts only negative things and stirs the pot on a forum. I had a feeling other members that attend DCFS were on here. i just wanted to see if others agreed with me or not. Im going to say one last time that it's a great club and these minor things are not going to sway me to not attend.

[LisaA]

As for the No live fire draw drills on the line, If you go to the handgun range at DCFS, look at the metal rail under the benches. I do not want a guy doing his fast draw live fire drills anywhere near me. if you are going to do draws then you will have to stand off the line, at least an arms length to the rear of the guy shooting next to you.Think about that wile you look at the rail. Do you really think that a crowded range is the right place for those types of drills? I don]t care if you are better trained than Elmer Kieth, I wouldn't know you from Adam. How do I know who is proficient at fast draws and who is going to put a .45 in my foot?

Practice draw and fire with a snap cap, in your basement, with no one else home. They have ones that flash a laser now so you can see where you would hit the target. Cheaper than 5 boxes of ammo.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/69986-1.html

Go to a 3 gun, the matches are set up for those shooting scenarios, and there is one shooter on the course at a time. . By all means take a more active role in club policy, but think about that rail, I have a pretty god idea that it is part of the reason behind that particular rule


My opinion of course

+1 Could not have said it better.